Stalingrad pass

[Victor L.]

[Victor L.]

:d

[Victor L.]

[Mike P.]

Thanks Victor but , we've seen pictures of them rusted out ....what we need to see is a period Photo of them in use and at least one Manual explaining why the Luftwaffe only used a "shipping weight range" tag instead of marking the exact weight of a Crate.
It doesn't look like that's going to happen anytime soon.


"Ok -Load the Crate tagged Pretty Heavy first..then the smaller medium weight crate next to the Light but fragile crate"
Sounds like a scientific way to load a Plane to me ..

It looks like you guys have a lot of them so ,I guess we'll keep seeing these pop up on Ebay.

[Victor L.]

It's very hard to find such Manuals, maybe it'll never ever happen.

But these tags do exist. Those I had shown were dug out in summer and now is winter. There weren't any of my tags on eBay. And these tags are rare really. Just made presents to my friends.

[Russ Schulke]

Mike P. (The world is still flat!) LOL

Lol, Never have bought one, never have sold one….only have dug them up near the old Stalingrad (Volgograd) region airports when I lived there!

Mike P. your a funny guy, no matter what these items are you can’t even acknowledge these items are being dug up……so……in your words everyone that has one of these is a fraud, a cheater or an criminal and is trying to make a fast buck.

Poor you, you probably think the world is still flat too. LOL xoXO LOLx3

Rule #1 of collecting “Never buy the story, buy the item!”

Russ

www.fireonthevolga.com

[Mike P.]

Russ , all kidding aside ...let's look at the larger picture here. The reputations of Russian/Latvian/Estonian Diggers and Dealers has been tainted by all the fakes and horror stories . Remember years ago seeing pictures of Helmets being dug up and they turned out to have fake post war decals ? -Or all the rare SS Helmets in great condition after being in mud for years--Another had a new Whitewash paint job ...or that guy who sold a Knights Cross HE dug up and it turned out to be a Latvian fake. I remember years ago getting Spammed by a "collector" in the Ukraine who dug up a numbered Luftwaffe Tank Assault Badge and tried selling it to me..that was worth a laugh. I have no doubt it's probably a small group of scammers who are out for a quick buck - BUT , the end result is ...The scammers ruined it for the many reputable dealers/collectors in those Countries. Collectors are leery of the people-the stories and to be honest , no one is thrilled with the idea of Soldiers Graves being defiled .

So on this stage we introduce a NEW Nazi Collectible that "History" (and Collectors) seem to have overlooked for years ...The sales pitch (explanation) was that Diggers had found them buried in Stalingrad. The story was that it was a Token for wounded Soldiers to Fly out of the doomed City.
And they sold well on Ebay.

Once we proved that story was a joke ....the Story changed to Freight Weight Range Tag ?

No Proof of piles of them showing up in Germany/Greece/Norway or anywhere else ...only the Eastern Front.
No Period Photos of them in use
No mention of them in any Books
None showing up as "Vet Bring-backs"
No Manual mentioning them
No Sales Catalogs from the 60's,70's or 80's even selling them

And yet , you expect our Collecting Community to now blindly accept these as Nazi artifacts ?
From a Region we already have a Track Record with ?

I keep bringing these points up but none of you ever address them ..instead of proof , you keep posting pictures of rusty disks as if the fact that you show them proves they're real ?

Russ , This Thread started about 3 years ago and back in June of 2007 you said you were moving and had all of your research packed up --your proof or evidence must have been unpacked by now. Please post the evidence you have ...share it with us so we can end this. But I hope your Proof is
substantial ..including documented evidence and not just hearsay. Without any Proof ...I don't want to hear any more about these being produced during the Nazi Era.

Maybe you guys are missing something ..Just for the sake of argument , what if these were made by the Soviets and used as some sort of Grave Marker for Luftwaffe personnel ? That , I would consider -as long as someone took the time to search through the Russian Archives to confirm it.
But then that would make you wonder why the Soviets didn't make a different disk for SS graves or Army.

The bottom line is ---- Without any Proof ..they'll remain a Fantasy item


Remember rule number 1# about collecting: NEVER BUY THE STORY, ONLY BUY THE ITEM IF YOU'VE RESEARCHED IT AN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING!

[Lee Luke]

Well , I bought 3 for $10 about 3-4 years ago. Very rusty. I got them from a man in northern Germany. He had been digging at an air base that was used to house POW's. He has dug up tons of stuff of all sorts. I had bought several dogtags from him also. He was doing contract work at the airbase, doing demo work on the old buildings. He also dug around the perimeter where parts of the old base were located.

He sent many, many pictures of the digs and items found. Mostly Luftwaffe stuff but also Heer and Kreigsmarine. I haven't had contact with him for a long time.

I think they are real. The metal is thin and I don't think they hold up well in the ground.

[Mike P.]

Hi Lee , Between Construction and even UXO and EOD work ..they've been digging in Germany and all over Europe since 1945.
And we'd never hear about or see these things show up ever. It's only since the late 90's we've seen them show up. And it all started with the Ost Front Diggers .
What story did that Dealer give you for them ? And PLEASE tell us why you feel they are real ..do you have any proof? Or are you just taking the dealers word for it ?


If you want to read more on these ..check out this Thread --
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=303796

[Russ Schulke]

I delivered already!

Mr. P

What research are you talking about? I only promised the weight classifications to the shape/color coding after the review the video taped interview and I delivered already.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303796&page=2

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303796

All of following information was related to me during a contract interview with a German Luftwaffe officer that was involved in the 1942 Demyansk battle.

(As this was a signed contract job, my contract forbids me to release any data [Video, notes … ect.] until the author release his project [book] to the general public.)

These are Luftwaffe cargo loading tags. Theses were attached, in the case of wood boxes nailed to or wire to the cargo and directed the loader on the weight class and the fragilely of the equipment.

As the German airfields in both the Stalingrad and Demyansk battles were under direct aerial attack, this was a stopgap measure to expedite the loading/unloading of planes. Large items would have to be transported directly to the airfields because of the size/weight/loading-time but smaller items were pack in remote sites around the airfields and bought in at the very last moment for loading.

As planes must be loaded so it is balance in flight, it is crucial that the weight of cargo must be distributed in the proper matter; this is reflected in the heavy weight square tags. The round shape tags reflect the lightest weight class and the start of the fragile sub classification. These items would be packed and shipped in a much different matter that the heavy class. Optics would fit the round white (green?) tags category, because they are susceptible to damage such continuous low vibration.

Red square tag - Heavy weight class – not fragile (20 Kgs. / 44 lbs.)
Yellow square tag - Medium weight class – not fragile (10 Kgs. / 22 lbs.)
Red round tag - Light weight class – not fragile (5 Kgs. / 11 lbs.)
Yellow round tag - Light weight class – fragile
White (Green?) round tag - Light weight class – extremely fragile

The first tag I purchased was from the Demyansk area in the early 1990’s, right after the fall of the Berlin wall. I have personally lived in Volgograd and had dug these tags up around the former airfields.

Sometime between 1999-2001 I first heard and seen on websites (Ebay, Epier…) that these tags were being called Stalingrad pocket fly-out tickets. Most, 90% of these sellers, diggers and sites are in the current Russian Federation but there is not one recorded (German) story of a soldier being issued these tags to fly out of blockade!

Remember rule number 1# about collecting: NEVER BUY THE STORY, BUY THE ITEM!


Virgin ground, untouched for 60+ years, no local diggers involved, no local tour guides involved, no expanding on existing digs! Just me with a metal detector and shovel, my wife and some of her girlfriends in their bikinis drinking beer.”

Also, I will retract one thing. I did buy one from Demyansk area in the early 1990’s. (My mistake, I thought I traded something for it, but I am sure now it was a money transaction.)

Fantasy item? No, as I said before, no matter what these items are, you can’t even acknowledge they are being found in the ground. LOL

Also, here is another little secret, the world not flat, its round; Columbus did not discover America and the world wasn’t created in 7 days. (Sunday is football day!)


Russ

www.fireonthevolga.com

[Lee Luke]

No proof and the guy is not a dealer. Just selling a bunch of stuff he found while working at an airfield in northern Germany. He hasnt sold anything for a long time now. I was collecting dogtags and he found alot of them. Mostly halves and halves cut in half. Also odds and ends of all sorts of luftwaffe metal objects. Pieces of planes, equipment , helmuts etc. All in various stages of decay.

Hell he wasnt giving any story with the unknown tags, 3 for $10 why not, they fit nicely into the holder I use for dogtags.Especially when they were going for a lot more on ebay.

[rossoshki]

What is it ?

[Johnny R]

What is it ?

Looks like a directional sign for a unit but I cannot read it, St. is probably "Stab"

[rossoshki]

inscription - St/BbG
G - Guderian ??????

[Hummel]

inscription - St/BbG
G - Guderian ??????

Hallo New Member
Es gib moglichkeit dass,das ist zeichen auf Stab Beobachten Abteilung!
Gruß Serjio