Has anyone ever seen or heard of this? It is supoosed to be a get out of Stalingrad free pass.
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I see them on eBay, which makes me wonder...the story usually attached is that they were for the wounded guys to be airlifted out.
I'm skeptical, but may be wrong.
best
HankUnless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
~ Dan Hampton, Viper Pilot -
I have heard that as well, and I am skeptical also. I thought it might be an insteresting subject.Comment
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Are there no more opinions on this???Comment
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Yes , I have a couple from russia. I also bought 3 from a guy in Germany. He has been digging a POW area, near an old german airbase, these 3 came from this digging. He has found several,also over 200 dogtags, aircraft parts,all kinds of luftwaffe militaria. I have always read about needing special permission or proof to leave the pocket. Too many men to have written orders for everyone flying out of the stalingrad pocket.Comment
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Stalingrad Pass
Hi,
yes I have come across these too, some were the round variety, different colours for different reasons most seem to be for wounded soldiers, others for soldiers with special skills. I was going to buy one just to have something from Stalingrad. I never did beacause they were too expensive for what I believe they are worth and mainly because the seller had some story about searching around Stalingrad in order to bury war dead which the nasty communists left to rot at the time leaving relatives to ponder what happened to their loved ones. Anything they find they sell in order to pay their costs in this noble pursuit. Whenever I hear a story I am sceptical especially one like this maybe I am a bastard. I dont know how common these discs would be but I do know anyone who had one in late 42 early 43 in Stalingrad would have held on to it till they died or where flown out.
cheers RobertComment
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Sorry to disagree here but ,I don’t buy it …. Just take a minute and think it out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o
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No Food , Medical Supplies, Ammo , Fuel …and yet in the midst of everything , the 6<SUP>th</SUP> Army finds a press and creates a die and starts making these disks ? Since 45,000 were evacuated by air ..they would have had to have made 10’s of thousands of these…and they would have started showing up in collections years ago.<o></o>
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This was not done by any of the other German “Pockets” like Cholm or Demjansk so ..the 6<SUP>th</SUP> Army came up with their own novel idea ? A metal Token that would actually represent “evacuation” , some for Medical reasons but others maybe Running away ?
I don't think the German Army would create a symbol like that that could come back and "haunt" them.
--That would have been a very powerful symbol that I’m sure the Soviets Propaganda machine would not have overlooked. They would have put that symbol to use immediately on Leaflets, posters ..prob even made a few up to drop on the Germans and affect Morale.<o></o>
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If these were real and whoever possessed this “get out of Jail Free” Token was allowed to Fly out of the Pocket, Soldiers would have been killing each other to get one and that surely would have been documented somewhere ..at least in the 6<SUP>th</SUP> Army Diary which WAS flown out and saved. None of the Books or 1<SUP>st</SUP> hand accounts ever mention this Metal Token / Pass .. <o></o>
That Token would have become infamous and come to symbolize the desperate escape from the pocket .<o></o>
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In my 40 years of collecting I’ve never seen Hermann Historica or any of the other Auction Houses selling these ….and I bet if you do a search on these Forums ,you won’t find any mention of them years ago either.<o></o>
So ..Considering where these are coming from and how they’ve become popular Ebay/Epier items ..I think it’s a Fantasy item along the lines of those Channel Island Tokens that showed up in the 1980’s and that new RAD Nurse armband that just started showing up. New Fantasy items sans Swastika so they’ll be easier to sell on line.<o></o>
Just my opinion guys
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Mike, I think you hit the nail right on the head!
There would had to be surviving documentation on them. Issue docs, maybe soldbuch entry, regulation of useage, distribution regs, something!Comment
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I'm with Mike.
To me these are all fake.
If we ASSUME that these are original, would German Official's have issued similar tags for the evacuation of the Kurland pocket, Ost Prussia, etc. etc. Since evacuees went out by ship, would every evacuee that boarded the Gustloff or Von Steuben been issued a tag allowing them to be rescued? To my recollection hundreds of thousands of people escaped certain death on these ships and several others. Where are their tags? Oops, guess we'll be seeing something "new" for sell on the market......
Just use some common sense.
If someone can make a dollar on something, then the repo artist will make it.
And make a story to sell with the piece! Show me a vet. from Stalingrad that has a tag! Then I might change my opinion.
For what it's worth.......my two cents.
Cheers,
HowardComment
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As long as we keep our sense of Humor
Now ...you guys know this Medal is a fantasy item right ? ----Comment
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You're right Gaspare ...there would have been a Regulation on these (if they were real) ..and as I mentioned before , I've never ever seen one of these tags until recently . These guys are really getting creative ...I bet soon we'll see a special "Berlin Bunker" pass Token ..then they'll say they were given out for Hitlers staff to evacuate the Bunker in '45Originally posted by Gaspare View Post
what's not funny is seeing our fellow collectors buy the story and waste hard earned money ...that's not a jokeComment
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There is a man near me who runs a small wood working shop and is a veteran of the 6th army at Stalingrad..in fact, his wife was one of the last civilians with the army to be evacuated by road before the ring closed..(she was a nurse...)
After the Russians had encircled Stalingrad completely, the gentleman was wounded by grenade splinters to the face and hands.He was evacuated to German held territory on one of the few aircraft that made a landing to deliver food and small arms ammunition.The turnaround was under 10 minutes, and was probably one of the last transport aircraft to successfully land intact and take off till the 6th surrendered.
Something like 50-60 transports were shot down before all air operations ceased..no sense in throwing good after bad i suppose.
Now, i asked him this afternoon what the process was for wounded being transferred out..he stated that in typical German fashion all paperwork was filled out, and he was kept lucid to ensure it was correct..he was tagged with a large waxed cardboard tag with the nature of the wounds, name, amount and types of drugs administered (if any) and was duly signed off on by no less than two staff doctors and attached to his second button hole..He was also given his wehrpass, as it was deemed that it would be best if it was carried out by the soldier given the circumstance.
He stated no special tags were issued, or flight papers, nor were there men shot scrambling to escape on the planes..in spite of everything, he said the soldiers maintained quite good discipline and most kept their wits about them...it was only on the plane where the wounds were for the first time felt, and on the over one hour ride it was sheer agony.
The most amazing thing is when he landed, he was treated by the woman who be his wife after the war, though no storybook romance was involved at the time..
This man is a wealth of stories...he is the only man in his platoon to survive the war, and was ony one of twenty one to survive from his regiment of over three hundred men....Comment
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I hope you've spent a lot of time with him ..Veterans like him are walking History Books and once he's gone ..so are his stories and a lot of History.
Here's the Cardboard Tag he mentioned . They came on a Pad and were ripped out and tied to the 2nd button. SOP for any wounded Soldier in WW2.
These "Wounded Tags" were even shown in the Stalingrad Movie --Last edited by Mike P.; 06-13-2007, 01:15 AM.Comment
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This pad is missing the first Tag . I have 2 different books of these Tags Here's the inside -Comment
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Thank you gents, very good feedback!Comment
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