The Two S&L Dies for RK's

[Dave Kane]

Brian, the article is from 1953 and Steinhauer und Lueck is mentioned and it is strictly about TR awards. The 1957 awards were introduced 4 years later ....how could they know that?

Dietrich

Dietrich...you are dead wrong! It already mentions that S&L is going to be producing the Awards for the West Germans!!

[Dietrich Maerz]

Point 3 is that the assymetrical nature and rough ridges and edges of these 'flaws' will retain the material pressed into them on occasion.

Okay, now I know what you mean. You say sometimes the silver sticks into the flaw cavities of the cracked die and sometimes not. But with all the little tiny flaws Dave shows it works all the time. How can that be?

And why does it (so far at least) "work" always with the knee flaws and always in a way that if the 6-9 o'clock knee flaw is present the flaw row is also present and if the 9-12 o'clock knee flaw is p[resent the 6-9 o'clock is not and the flaw row is also not present? Coincidence?

Dietrich

[Brian S]

I lived in Luxembourg and Munich. Went to a few Vet org meetings w/ relatives. Didn't see a single swastika. But, they wore some sort of badges and ribbons. Not Nazi type. Wouldn't S&L be smart enough to provide 'decorations' for the vets for these occasions as keep sakes?

Saw many many old men at the Hof Brau Haus wearing pins and ribbons and telling me about war stories. No swasis. Assumed they were vet org badges and pins and commemorative to show to attract other vets.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dietrich...you are dead wrong! It already mentions that S&L is going to be producing the Awards for the West Germans!!

Dave,

I'm not dead wrong. I cannot read it - only partially. And that's my mistake. Let's wait till I have the full article and then I can read it complete.

I'm sorry if I made the impression that I wanted to mislead.

Dietrich

[George Stimson]

Can anybody show a picture of a 935/4 without the "pot holes"?

[Marc Garlasco]

Do we know anyone who makes present day awards who might have some ideas???

[Dietrich Maerz]

I lived in Luxembourg and Munich. Went to a few Vet org meetings w/ relatives. Didn't see a single swastika. But, they wore some sort of badges and ribbons. Not Nazi type. Wouldn't S&L be smart enough to provide 'decorations' for the vets for these occasions as keep sakes?

Saw many many old men at the Hof Brau Haus wearing pins and ribbons and telling me about war stories. No swasis. Assumed they were vet org badges and pins and commemorative to show to attract other vets.

Brian,

are you honestly convinced that the heavily flawed unmarked unmagnetic example of the article is made pre-45?

Dietrich

[George Stimson]

Marc raises an interesting point. Has anyone considered contacting a modern medal/coin maker to ask some questions about the manufacturing process and die flaw possibilities?

[Biro]

Marc raises an interesting point. Has anyone considered contacting a modern medal/coin maker to ask some questions about the manufacturing process and die flaw possibilities?

Or someone from S&L themselves.... http://www.steinlueck.de/produkte/orden/index.htm

There must still be an 'old timer' or two involved?

Marshall

[Marc Garlasco]

Marshall - YES! They still sell the EK1...so they must have a CLUE!!! How about we put together some questions for them and Dietrich can write them a nice letter in German and who knows? What could happen - he gets deported? I say DO IT!

[Brian S]

Brian,

are you honestly convinced that the heavily flawed unmarked unmagnetic example of the article is made pre-45?

Dietrich

Absolutely in my mind post-45, no question.

[George Stimson]

Marshall and Marc

I think you'd have better chance with an outfit with a lower paranoia level than S&L -- somebody like the Franklin Mint.

[TMurray]

Or someone from S&L themselves.... http://www.steinlueck.de/produkte/orden/index.htm

There must still be an 'old timer' or two involved?

Marshall

This debate over S&L die flaws mustve been raging for many years (?) surely S&L have been contacted in the past for opinion/information? If not, I'll be VERY suprised. But worth following up b/c perhaps we've all be remiss?!

[Dave Kane]

How many identical fingerprints does it take for someone to take a step backward and think....Hmmm yes, it may just be the same die!!!!


Doctored, mended or rehabilitated in a dozen ways until at last it couldn't function anymore...

I have never heard of a test that brought forth just 2 'differences' when there was a constant 20 to 30 identical 'points' of which to compare and and in the end a result such as this was proposed!


Surely S&L produced awards post war both TR type and for the new Government....that's not new at all but accepted in our ranks. And, for those who don't know...I'm one of the bigger accusers!

However, the proposal of multi die just hasn't been shown....and far from proven.

This discussion is regarding mother, daughter, daddy or any form of 'copy' die and not 'IF' S&L continued to make medals etc. post '45.

I find IDENTICAL features on these crosses and suggest strongly that only ONE die was used and eventually worn out!!!

[Brian S]

I find IDENTICAL features on these crosses and suggest strongly that only ONE die was used and eventually worn out!!!

And I have to agree. I think the differences are explainable.

I appreciate the Fig. 35 comparison Dietrich. I'd like to see all the sides and angles with flaws to see more comparisons if you have them.

Each flaw if not warped by its extraction has its own fingerprint. Can you find any two flaws with points and features that make them identical?