My unmarked EK1 Paul Meybauer

[Douglas 5]

Lets pull up yours and a 23 I have .
They do not match ... Euronymous - don't jump out the window yet !
And then they sort of match ... the fat bead is present on both .

Douglas

[Douglas 5]

You kept asking ... so I had a closer look why the difference .
Both of these have the same small bent flaw and are dies or masters supplied by S&L .
Maybauer was involved with the EK design before S&L -- did they have produce their own design ???
As you said - you could not find one and I have not found one . The Maybauer Schinkel is the only one that I know of - but it is really different . .. unless Trevor knows of one ?

The comparison below may give some clues or partial answer - but might create more questions .

Douglas

[streptile]

The simple answer to this question is that the "23" frame has a distinctive shape that is shared by only two other makers: Deumer and (to some extent) Mayer. Floch uses this shape also, and some others come close. It's a lightly flared shape with rounded inner corners made of acute angles that is totally distinct from Meybauers or S&Ls, both of which use a more traditional flared shape with less acute inner corners.

Your cross has that shape.

If there are small differences between this frame and another "23" frame, it is probably due to die wear or lighting.

Douglas also provides one answer above: flaws are progressive, so the absence of one specific flaw does not mean the frame is not the same as the one with the flaw. The flaw could have developed over time, or it could be on a die that was corrupted somehow during striking from the same master.

[Euronymous]

You are certainly right guys. You are THE experts !

Please see post "19" where Douglas show the bent flaw. I inspected my cross but I am not able to see that bent flaw.

[Douglas 5]

Going by your reply in post 21 you had found the flaw ... which does not matter as each die can be different .
I made a diagram that gives an over view of dies and when & why some flaws can show up or why not .
Hope this helps .

Douglas

[Euronymous]

That diagram helps me, thanks Douglas !

Some questions:

"23" frame die was supplied by S&L ?

My cross has been made by Meybauer using a "23" frame ?

Or:

Whole cross has been made by the maker "23" ? I ask that question because maker "23" use the same pin, hinge and catch. It's what I see on Stefan's page.

http://www.ek1-dna.de/arbeitsgemeins...3-,-berlin.php

[streptile]

"23" frame die was supplied by S&L ?

No.

Whole cross has been made by the maker "23" ?

The idea that 23 even made EK1s was suggested (by me, here) only in 2010, and is unproven. I would call your EK1 a Meybauer / possible 23.