Awarded Souval EK1 Examples

[Bcarver]

Greetings all. This may be a dead issue for many however seeing that the EK1 from Souval with a pin back has caused controversy over the years I thought I would add something to it. Do any of you know of any AWARDED cross's that are/were in German vets possessions? Namely I am looking for the dipping 3, rough paint, die flaw. It seems that if we have some examples of actually awarded and worn pieces it will settle this as we can place the cross in wartime. Thanks in advance to those who take the time to respond.

[Dietrich Maerz]

There might be some early (pre end 1941) awarded crosses. Those would be unmarked. I do not know of any 98 marked crosses, which would be the awarded ones past end of 1941. The existence of undoubtful genuine L/58 marked crosses as pin back and with screw are ample testament that Souval was an original manufaturer of EKs between 1939 and 1945.

The hybrids with Orth core, Souval frame and L 15 markings are a complete different issue.

Dietrich

[Bcarver]

Thanks Dietrich, I see now why so many people frown on these pieces. There just doesn't seem to be any evidence out there to show unmarked Souval cross's awarded to German soldiers. They are undoubtful 100% original Souval cross's, but if it can't be proven they were awarded during the war then that kills the thrill of owning something worn by a combat vet who earned. Just like the dotted DKiG, it's real, but no proof it was awarded during the war.

[dmytro]

Can I ask about this one?, obvious Souval frame, dipping three, unmarked on the reverse and shows signs of wear, any comments appreciated

http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/so...32981532010727

hope the link works

[Bcarver]

This one is a well used 100% Souval, but the issue is can anyone show these were awarded to German soldiers. So far in 2 forums no one has shown one that belonged to a German vet. This brings up the concern that these unmarked cross's were put together right after the war.

[streptile]

Can I ask about this one?, obvious Souval frame, dipping three, unmarked on the reverse and shows signs of wear, any comments appreciated

hope the link works

Link worked ok for me. In my opinion this is the type most likely to be postwar. Every component on that type is known to have been used postwar by Souval (pin, hinge, frame, core, catch). I don't discount the possibility that there could also be wartime examples like this, but I've yet to see a confirmed one (not sure what could confirm it).

[Dennis J]

I have had this one for 40 years and it came off of a walking out Army tunic.So is it orig. war time Souval or not.I have had the cross looked many times but I would like your input,thanks for any and all help.

[Dennis J]

Pic 2.
Dennis J

[Dennis J]

Pic 3.

Dennis J

[Dennis J]

Pic 4.
Dennis J

[streptile]

Hi Dennis,

I wouldn't like to say, personally, one way or the other about your cross with certainty. It is the type that I believe Souval made after the war, in the '40s and '50s.

I have seen every component on this cross used on postwar EK1s by Souval: the frame and core in clearly postwar EK1s with well-known 1960s-era pin systems, the reverse hardware on 1957 core EK1s, and the frame also on postwar "blank core" EK2s thought to have been used by vets from 1945-1956. So the pieces were all used postwar. Souval was in Austria where they were not prohibited from manufacturing 1939 EKs after the war. EKs were hot souvenirs and were even possibly bought by surviving vets.

So to me it's pretty clear to me that they made this type after the war was over. What I do not know is whether they also made this exact type before the war finished.

Therefore I can't really say for sure about your cross. There are some Souvals I would be happy to have in my collection (including but not limited to those that used Schenkl cores), But I would not have this specific type of EK1 in my collection, because of this uncertainty.

[Bcarver]

Dennis, yours is exactly like the one I bought (save for the paint, mine is rough not smooth) and after spending a whole 2 days on this forum I have come to this conclusion: There is no evidence that these cross's were awarded during the war. I stress that. I have seen that no German vet who was awarded the EK1 has this example. If this type was common or even rare during the war, then at least one would have this type in their possession. Souval made decorations on May 8th and then again on May 9th and all the way up to the 70's. This is the problem with these types, it's 100% Souval but it appears these were made post war. Until I see one in a untouched/virgin German vets lot, I will stand by this deduction.

[Dennis J]

Thanks everybody for your input............now I know that this cross is a fake and I will destroy it.Does this rule also apply to the IC 2nd cl made by Souval?I have one of them as well.I bought here on the e stand 9 years ago.

Dennis J

[Dennis J]

Is this one a fake as well???????

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=659961

Dennis J

[tystgaard]

Hi

Hi

Dont destroy it... there are collectors for postwar souval items, and some believe some of the early ones where produced for vets that lost there awards doing the final days of the war.
Others maybe even believe a cross like this to be wartime.

Best
Nicolai