New arrivals from the bombed Zimmermann factory

[Leroy]

Robert - Thanks for doing in Post 119 what I was trying to do in 3 posts before that. The miracle of graphics.....

P.S. Die striking or die casting?

[butschekantiques]

Sorry for the delay!

More detailed pictures as requested via PM.

Any more just let me know please!

[Leroy]

Morticed or solder run-off from loop attachment?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Robert - Thanks for doing in Post 119 what I was trying to do in 3 posts before that. The miracle of graphics.....

P.S. Die striking or die casting?

Any idea how it should be possible to start with a 1 mm thick planchet and end up with a 3-4 mm thick Oakleave set that seems to fit perfectly into the stamped planchet? When I am back home again I will measure the inner contours of the stamping left over.

Also, I can only answer for the sword planchet from the old thread: no casting, stamping from non-silver sheet metal.

@Klaus: thanks for the pictures .... Are you in Kassel?

[Leroy]

Any idea how it should be possible to start with a 1 mm thick planchet and end up with a 3-4 mm thick Oakleave set that seems to fit perfectly into the stamped planchet?

It was just the outline that was important (for me).

If the strikes we see are in 1 mm thick planchets, does that suggest just some sort of trial strike for surface detail? The strike goes completely through the metal and did not have to be cutout (or was there a shearing die used?). You're the engineer.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Engineer is not so important here - I have the actual parts.

The planchet could have been thicker before the process but not thick enough for the real Godet Oakleaves. One has to differentiate between the die stamping ( like cookie cutting) which is the case here and the die forging which was used for the real Oakleaves.

A test strike with a thin sheet metal in a die forge would not leave such a plain cut out and for sure not such an undistorted left-over. I dont even think that it is done at all. To my knowledge test strikes were and are done with softer material but with the same size of the actual material. And with less force and very careful!

[xalt]

Sorry but i didn't read all the pages but i think i could help with my knowledge.
Normally to test a mould it's used an alluminium piece of the same size and thickness of normal piece.
About other technical question i'll try to read last pages.

[Leroy]

Then what are these? Fakes mixed in with legitimate "Zimmermann rubble" to legitimize them?

[Rich G]

Maybe the oakleaves cutout sample started off much thicker than you think Dietrich. It is not impossble.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Richard,
Everything is possible ... If one wants to!

All I can say - and everybody here can believe it or not - is that the planchet I have and which I showed in the old thread without holding back anything or adding anything has IMHO nothing to do with the real Oakleaves or Oakleaves with Swords from Godet. The same applies to the one- sided swords from that old thread.

Dietrich

[Robert T.]

This 21 marked "Monday morning set...?" also shows a thick split-line similar to the two-sided example from this thread.

Robert

[Leroy]

Where's the bottom photo from?

I am starting to smell a big, fat rat.............

[Robert T.]

Where's the bottom photo from?

I tried to find the link.... but could not... it was copied from WAF two days ago.

The set was attached to a Zimmermann KC ???

Robert

[ChrisJ]

Surely a separate cutting or trimming die was used...this is a normal situation in the jewelry manufacturing trade (which is basically what we are looking at)

Please also note that sometimes more than one strike is required to get full details on a piece.

I cannot believe that two separate strikings were joined together. For me the single sided plan bets are die development test pieces.

What's the rat Leroy's ?...this is getting confusing...can you recap where we are ?

[Johannski]

That might be of interest too - if not, sorry:

Blank oak leaves: Forman, Adrian, Bravery Courage an Valour. Decorations and Awards of the Third Reich, V1, 2008, p. 268

Production of order: http://ordensmuseum.de/bundesverdien...ng-hersteller/

Stamping in the die: http://www.haushaltsartikel.de/handwerk/schl_ges.htm

Have fun with it...

Kind regards!