junckers RK with rough core

[tom hansen]

I don't think that gloss could be oil. It's either been repainted, or it's been coated with a clear varnish.

Whatever has been done to it, the cross has basically been ruined.

Sorry, but that's my own opinion.

I'm a purist when it comes to these things.

So I guess the consensus is to send the cross back? Hopefully this can be done. I really do not mind corrosion, as I like crosses with wear, but this just looks odd and much different from my other crosses, thus my concern. The original photos did not show this effect on the core well. It may be the lighting with the photos.

[ROBB]

Personally I dont mind a bit of corrosion and wear .But I can understand you not being happy if its been repainted ,Rob

[Airborne Nut]

As for the cross being sold as an unpainted one, you have every right to get your money back, but this cross is far from ruined.


If it has been ruined why not throw it in the garbage? Ruined is when it goes through a fire and only a steaming pile of metal and silver remains. Fact is it is still a nice Period Knight's cross that I would love to have in my collection.

What percentage of this forum's membership have these high end pieces in their collections, and of that how many have several? THere are I am sure a vast majority of us who do not even have 1 RK in our collection and probably never will. Just because this cross has been tampered with does not mean that it has any less historical signifigance to it. This cross is unattributable, but it still does have a history and one that played a part in changing many a young man's life.

While I like to focus on collecting pristine examples, I will still not discard this piece as ruined or no longer a nice piece simply becasue it appears to be repainted. Less of a monetary value, defenitely! But not ruined.

When those on this forum who have literally several of a prestigious EXPENSIVE award say that an award is ruined because it has been altered , please think of the thousands of us who do not even have 1 RK in our collection, think of the recipient who bled for this award, this cross is not ruined, just negatively altered for the collecting community.
I always buy the award, and not the story, but like it or not every piece has a history and that is why I collect, for the history. The Items I collect are like a tangable link to one of the worlds most dangerous times. You don't have to know the history of a piece to get that link to the past.

This cross is not Runined, it's value may be less, but it's signifigance is still as strong as it was 60+ years ago.

-Shane

[Tiger 1]

Finish impared may be a better description than ruined. This cross can be restored by a knowledgeable craftsman. While it wouldn't be strictly original condition it would still be a genuine KC. With the comparative rarity of genuine KCs we can't throw this on the trash heap because of condition. It may not be for everyone but it would be for some. The operative word would be to preserve.

Tony

[tom hansen]

Thanks Shane-


My concern at this point is whether to return it. I agree that a cross altered is not worthless, but is simply significantly less in value and less desireable than an unaltered cross. Having paid a price for an unaltered cross, I guess that is what I was hoping for. I am sincerely not trying to appear pretentious, as I am very grateful I can get these items. However, given the cost I would like to make sure the cross is unaltered, as the cross would be significantly less in value.

Thanks Tony



So what would you guys do with this cross?

[Erich B.]

Rk

My suggestion would be to ask the seller if he would consider a partial refund because of the condition. You can make him an offer that you feel comfortable with. Otherwise, if it is a choice between paying top dollar for a non-top piece or waiting until a better one comes along, I would wait for the next one. L/12s are hard to find but not rare--you can certainly find another.
Erich

[Airborne Nut]

Well said Erich! That is what I would do. I do like the cross for it's history, but the collector in me would feel very upset paying top dollar for an altered cross.

I would make an offer based upon it's current condition and then return it if the seller is unwilling to accept your offer. Eventually this cross will find a home where the price is right or the new owner just doesnt care. Still a very nice piece. If you are going to throw it in the trash, or if anyone else out there in RK land is so upset about an alted cross they have discovered in their collection, I will gladly send my address for you to Get rid of it, and I will even pay the shipping!

-Shane

My suggestion would be to ask the seller if he would consider a partial refund because of the condition. You can make him an offer that you feel comfortable with. Otherwise, if it is a choice between paying top dollar for a non-top piece or waiting until a better one comes along, I would wait for the next one. L/12s are hard to find but not rare--you can certainly find another.
Erich

[Luftm40]

It looks to me like it was corroded, and as the owner apparently stated, oil was applied to the surface. I don't think we can say for sure from these pics whether it has been repainted. Does the cross have a wet, oily surface? Just my opinion from the pics.

[Robin Lumsden]

So I guess the consensus is to send the cross back? Hopefully this can be done. I really do not mind corrosion, as I like crosses with wear, but this just looks odd and much different from my other crosses, thus my concern. The original photos did not show this effect on the core well. It may be the lighting with the photos.

Tom.
If I was you, I'd send the cross back.
I think I'd always have a niggling 'dislike' about it if I was to keep it.


Shane.
I didn't mean to upset anyone or appear 'high and mighty' by saying this cross has been ruined. In my own opinion, it HAS been ruined. It's like repainting a steel helmet. It'll NEVER be the same again. And for your own information, I only have one RK, bought 20 years ago. I don't spend a lot of money on this stuff these days. It's too expensive. That's why I was trying to offer my advice here - to save Tom some grief. That's all.

[Dave Kane]

Good morning all! I agree with everything I've read so far and understand that each collector has his/her threshold of comfort.

In its current shape the cross wouldn't be for me, as I too, am a purest and look for quality in my mania!!

I don't think that the cross has been re-painted but surely over oiled! I have a faint memory of the cross and discounted it at the time because of the 'visual'.
The cross is a good 'been there' cross that has has a bit too much attention given it recently.

Tom, a 'bath' couldn't hurt this cross and with a mild soap the distracting oil may be removed. Thereafter a hair drier on a low contstant heat will help to bring out the rust (patina)! If the former owner didn't brush it too aggressively prior to treatment the result may well be very pleasing to you....as a field worn cross!

However, prior to doing anything work your 'differences' out with the seller.

I really think that the cross can be brought back! Detlev or others (who collect his pics) may still have a view of this cross 'as offered' and if the oil removal works well.....everyone may be a winner!

Good luck!

Dave

PS....good job w/the new lenses!!!!

[Luftm40]

In my earlier years I had very good luck cleaning EKs w/ warm water and a mild soap, scrubbed very gently w/ a very soft brush. It can work wonders. You may also be able to soak the excess oil off using cotton swabs or cotton balls

[Airborne Nut]

No problem, Robin, we all collect for different reasons. For me it makes the reality of it more clear and puts me in touch with the past.

Of course I don't approve of altering a cross, but for me it would not be ruined if it were altered. It would be a Damn shame but not ruined.

Didn't mean to seem like I was on the attack, but for guys like me who's most expensive piece of militaria is a CCC in bronze a piece like this, even in it's condition is what dreams are made of.

-SHane

Tom.
If I was you, I'd send the cross back.
I think I'd always have a niggling 'dislike' about it if I was to keep it.


Shane.
I didn't mean to upset anyone or appear 'high and mighty' by saying this cross has been ruined. In my own opinion, it HAS been ruined. It's like repainting a steel helmet. It'll NEVER be the same again. And for your own information, I only have one RK, bought 20 years ago. I don't spend a lot of money on this stuff these days. It's too expensive. That's why I was trying to offer my advice here - to save Tom some grief. That's all.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...I personaly think it's impossible to give an opinion based up on pictures.If yoy treated the cross with oil it gives a strange look also.

I suggest to look very carfuly if there isn't any paint on the silver frame.It's not so easy to repaint a core without leaving traces(unless you are a dentist ).
If there is pitting to the cross, this can easily be seen. When there is paint in the pitting...
I only want to underline that you have to see the cross in real to make any judgement.

Personaly I go in the direction of oilthreatment.

Pieter.

[Gregory Koepp]

just to throw out something that i had one time,,,

i had a very nice cross that was not repainted and the paint was like crystal like layered on it. it looked like the medal under the paint was reacting to something, and was a strange look, and could look like it was repainted til you really looked close at all angles.

i don't think this is a bad cross if it was repainted?? just some like them pure

greg

[tom hansen]

I think I found a worn, but non-repainted RK under the oil. I washed the cross with warm water and soap and here is the result. Rusty, but it looks like just a worn core cross now. Any thoughts?