DKiS -- Opinions, Please!

[chris clark]

my pic of my dkis hope it ok

[nonameno]

He said the weight was 37 grams as well. With that weight and dimensions of 62.5mm, how can it be original? The date on the wreath looks good as well as the hinge and catch. However, there is that red paint on the starburst as well. It is a little disconcerting, if the recorded measurements are correct. Does he have decent calipers and a scale, or are these poorly measured?

The measurements were made with a ruler across the longest point and the weights were made with a weight watchers scale, so certainly these measurements are not scientific.
Thanks,
Curtiss

[tom hansen]

The ruler is certainly not accurate enough and will require calipers for an accurate measurement. Also, I am not familiar with a weight watchers scale, but it should be accurate to within .05g. I doubt a weight watchers scale is that accurate.

You have one of the most experienced individuals regarding DKiGs in Ivan feeling as though your cross is good, with the sticking point being the weight and dimensions. You have another extremely experienced fellow in George, thinking this cross is not good. Both of these gentlemen are extremely knowledgable, yet need good data to make an accurate evalutation. Please order a digital scale and calipers off the internet. The calipers will cost you $30 and the scale about $65. These are the cheap ones, but would be sufficient for your needs. Make sure the scale is accurate to .05 grams and weights up to 100g. Make sure the calipers are accurate to a minimum of .1mm-.05 would be better.
This is a small investment, particularly if you are deciding whether a $2000-$2300 item is real or not. You can get calipers at your hardware store locally, but the scales are harder to find.


Does this really have red paint on the starburst or is that just the photos? If there is red paint, that in itself would scare the crap out of me, as it is evidence that it has been altered in one aspect.

[George Stimson]

Tom is right. If more accurate measuring devices get you closer to the accepted norms, you might be all right. As for my observations on the wreaths, those could just be my perceptions. Here's a better shot of the wreath on mine, for comparison purposes.

[nonameno]

Tom is right. If more accurate measuring devices get you closer to the accepted norms, you might be all right. As for my observations on the wreaths, those could just be my perceptions. Here's a better shot of the wreath on mine, for comparison purposes.

Hello Gentlemen,
Presently, I do not have access to any better measurement devices. The red paint was more like ketschup which would scrap off. Another area of concern is the banner holding the 1941 script. The lines from the laurel leaves intruded into this space, as though it were cast and this area was not pressed properly? Further, the base plate when looked upon from the edge, looked as though it were cast instead of cut?
Thank you,
Curtiss

[DaveJ]

I do not know if it helps, but here is my DKiS Zimmerman

[tom hansen]

If you can see the laurel leaves impinging into the "1941" plate, which is not apparent on the images posted, that is not good.

As far as your scale, take eight US quarters (the new state ones). These should weigh 45.3g. It will give us some information about the accuracy of your scale. If the weight you obtain is 45+/- 1 gm, then I would think the weight you reported would preclude this cross from being original by itself.

[Dez H]

I would not like Chris’s piece in my collection. Does not confirm to characteristics I look for in original pieces. <O</O
<O</O

The wreath on Curtiss’ piece appears to be worn in places, that is where I think the differences between George’s and Curtiss’ piece are showing up. Look in particular to the wear to the 1941 on mikes piece and around the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:time Hour="9" Minute="0">9 O’clock</st1:time> arm. I wouldn’t rule this one out without much larger pictures and accurate weights and measurements. <O</O

[IVAN]

Hi,


following there is mine in gold grade light version inside the pic. I have look closed the wreath in question and it seams to be okay.

need more accurate datas. If is real 62,5 mm , for me no chance to be real ( but I believe is 63,00 mm )

[nonameno]

If you can see the laurel leaves impinging into the "1941" plate, which is not apparent on the images posted, that is not good.

As far as your scale, take eight US quarters (the new state ones). These should weigh 45.3g. It will give us some information about the accuracy of your scale. If the weight you obtain is 45+/- 1 gm, then I would think the weight you reported would preclude this cross from being original by itself.

Hello Tom,
I just put 8 new quarters on the Weight Watchers scale and it came up to grams. I don't know where that will place the badge in the scheme of things. My biggest concerns were the lack of precision by the date banner and the edges of the base badge itself looking cast?
Thank you all for your very kind assistance,
Curtiss

[George Stimson]

I will defer to Ivan and concur on his wreath analysis.

[tom hansen]

Curtiss-


You said it came up to grams. How many grams? Did the quarters weigh about 37 or 45 g on your scale?

[Dietrich Maerz]

I also concur with Ivans wreath display. Looks good to me!


Dietrich

[nonameno]

Curtiss-


You said it came up to grams. How many grams? Did the quarters weigh about 37 or 45 g on your scale?

Hello Tom,
Sorry, my typing does not keep up with my thoughts. The eight quarters weighed 44 grams.
Thank you,
Curtiss

[tom hansen]

Hello Tom,
Sorry, my typing does not keep up with my thoughts. The eight quarters weighed 44 grams.
Thank you,
Curtiss

Wait a minute! If the quarters weigh 44 g on the scale he is using, that means the scale is off by approximately 1 gram. Therefore the cross weighs at best 38 grams, which is about 7 grams light. What do you think? It is odd, because it looks good otherwise, but can a cross be original with this light of weight? I would think not- what do you think guys? has there ever been one single original zimmerman DKiS with a weight under 40grams? We also do not know accurately the dimensions without calipers, but I would think the weight itself would disquailfy this.