800 marked KC

[Brian S]

Great comments Brett


Now THIS is why we need to SOMETIMES put an item up for auction.

It would be fascinating to see how much a Rounder and much one of these would go for in say 30 days given our member's desires.

[ChrisJ]

Opinion

OK gents... here is my opnion..but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
I once had a cross very similar to this one, purchased from Poland in the late 1980's, and I was not comfortable with it at the time even though we had much less information available at that time. I became even more uncomfortable when I had through my hands (and was stung by) two of the "Latest & greatest Fakes"... (see parent awards section of this site ~ check it out), and saw what to me was the similarity between frames, particularly in bead counts. Many questionable (IMO) pieces have been kicking around with similar styles.
I suspect Sergey, that the weight of this cross will be around the 26 to 27g mark....(has the weight been taken yet?)
I hear what you guys are saying, and of course we must keep an open mind when something appears that does not meet the accepted norm.

[jujuy]

Another one with similar style weighting 28g... IMO they are too much like these offered on the market

OK gents... here is my opnion..but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
I once had a cross very similar to this one, purchased from Poland in the late 1980's, and I was not comfortable with it at the time even though we had much less information available at that time. I became even more uncomfortable when I had through my hands (and was stung by) two of the "Latest & greatest Fakes"... (see parent awards section of this site ~ check it out), and saw what to me was the similarity between frames, particularly in bead counts. Many questionable (IMO) pieces have been kicking around with similar styles.
I suspect Sergey, that the weight of this cross will be around the 26 to 27g mark....(has the weight been taken yet?)
I hear what you guys are saying, and of course we must keep an open mind when something appears that does not meet the accepted norm.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Brett,

thanks for your answer which is much appreciated. I can go along with everything you say. So would you consider this one a genuine Rounder?

[Sonderkommando]

Jujuy,

The RK you posted is obviously a repro. It is instantly recognisable by the different widths of the flanges around the outer edges. This is a good example of my previous comments regarding the quality of construction of Sergey's RK, nice even flange widths being one thing that stands out.

Dietrich,
The RK you posted rings a bell, I have seen it somewhere else. I don't remember the story that went with it though. I couldn't really make a judgement based on the picture of "whats left" of the RK, but the beading in the inner corners looks to be right for a rounder. The outer corners seem to be neat and symetrical but as I said, I won't make a judgement either way. The other factors that I would take into consideration simply aren't there.

I do think Sergey's RK looks pretty good though.

Regards,
Brett

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Brett,

it is a genuine Rounder. The beading matches 100%. Of course, the pyramidial swastika can no longer be seen and the same with the numerals.
I don't know about a story behind this other than it was posted about 1 1/2 years ago by a member you was offered this cross by a dealer at a very low price. He showed it here in the forum and got the thumbs down from (at that point) everybody who answered since at that point in time not a lot about rounders was known. He declined to buy and when I informed him about 6 month ago (after stumbling over the post) that this is a good one, he was hugely pi$$ed. Opportunity lost!

I think this is a nice example of how it can go but should not go.

Dietrich

P.S.: 1000 hopefully substantial posts reached.

[tom hansen]

Hi Brett,

it is a genuine Rounder. The beading matches 100%. Of course, the pyramidial swastika can no longer be seen and the same with the numerals.
I don't know about a story behind this other than it was posted about 1 1/2 years ago by a member you was offered this cross by a dealer at a very low price. He showed it here in the forum and got the thumbs down from (at that point) everybody who answered since at that point in time not a lot about rounders was known. He declined to buy and when I informed him about 6 month ago (after stumbling over the post) that this is a good one, he was hugely pi$$ed. Opportunity lost!

I think this is a nice example of how it can go but should not go.

Dietrich

P.S.: 1000 hopefully substantial posts reached.

Deitrich-
Is there any similarity in construction of the "rounder" RK and the L/13 EK1s with the pyramidal swaz?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Tom,

other than the pyramidial swastika, no. But considering the different dies, I would not exspect the beading to be the same anyway. Would be nice, though.
Anyhow, somebody realy has to argue away the "7" marking (clearly applied before assembly) of my rounder to make me not to believe in Meybauer.

Dietrich

[tom hansen]

[QUOTE=Dietrich]Tom,

other than the pyramidial swastika, no. But considering the different dies, I would not exspect the beading to be the same anyway. Would be nice, though.
Anyhow, somebody realy has to argue away the "7" marking (clearly applied before assembly) of my rounder to make me not to believe in Meybauer.

Dietrich[/QUOTE

Is it possible for you to post a photo of the "7" on your RK? I am a novice, but am trying to educate myself about these. I think that "7" stmp would be interesting to see. Also, is there similarity in the "1813" and "1939" dates on the EK1 and EK2 known by Meybauer and your RK? Thanks for the information.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Tom,

don't want to fend you off but if you do a search on "rounder" you will have more info than you ever wanted to have. Especially in the last "big" one.

Dietrich

[David C]

Hi Brett,

it is a genuine Rounder. The beading matches 100%. Of course, the pyramidial swastika can no longer be seen and the same with the numerals.
I don't know about a story behind this other than it was posted about 1 1/2 years ago by a member you was offered this cross by a dealer at a very low price. He showed it here in the forum and got the thumbs down from (at that point) everybody who answered since at that point in time not a lot about rounders was known. He declined to buy and when I informed him about 6 month ago (after stumbling over the post) that this is a good one, he was hugely pi$$ed. Opportunity lost!

I think this is a nice example of how it can go but should not go.

Dietrich

Gentlemen,

The cross had been sold on UK ebay for around £700. A few weeks later it was up again, same seller, this time it sold for around £400. Very suspicious I think you'll agree. A few weeks later it again appeared on ebay. This time a different seller, a guy I had dealt with many times before, on and off ebay. Very nice guy to deal with who ALWAYS sold me good items.

The cross was always "classically" described as having been "recently dug up in Russia"

Being somewhat surprised to see what I considered a "dodgy in the extreme" cross being offered by my trusted associate I emailed him on it. Yes it was the same cross. The other guy was apparently being messed about by a stalker who kept bidding on his auctions and not paying,... the plot thickens.

My associate had struck a deal with the other guy for some things and the cross came as part of the package.

He was honestly stating in the auction that he knew very little about RKs and was unsure of it. As he offered me the same no quibble, money back if not satisfied guarantee that he always had I kept one eye on the auction. Obviously the "dug up in Russia" aspect, coupled with the fact that this had been up twice before scared folks away. I got it for £262 as well as I can remember.

As Dietrich has pointed out it was slammed on the forum so I exercised my privilege. As it was shot down first round I only took a few cursory photos of it.

I really, really wish that I had taken more photos, especially of the jointing on the 3 O'C and 9 O'C arms.

I'll do my best to describe it. Looking at the edge of the arms where the solder joint is, both top and bottom was becoming desoldered. It was possible to slide your finger nail between the frames about 4-5mm from the corners. Ok, no big deal but what I did think strange was that the frames got narrower as they ran to the corners, quite significantly so. Hope you're with me here: so looking at the edge of the 3 O'C & 9 O'C arms, at the top you had a V shape where the frames were thinner and parting running into an even solder joint. At the lower end you had an inverted V just the same. Basically the edges of both the back and front frames became thinner 4-5mm from the corners.

Hope that makes sense.

Obviously, as some now claim it a genuine cross, I wish I still had it and will not comment on the slamming it originally received here but, what the hell that's life!

Attached is a photo of its rather large top solder joint.

Cheers,
David.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dave,

thank you for the story. I did not want to mention your name and I appreciate that you stepped in. There is no doubt that this example is a genuine Rounder. The soldering is puzzling and I don't know where it is comming from and what causes this effect. Maybe the rusting caused the distortion of the frame.Also, the very wide soldering on top and at the ring is strange. I can only say that my cross has a very, very thin soldering line and no indication whatsoever about V shaped frame ends. I would like to ask the other members with a Rounder to have a look too.


Dietrich

[Sergey]

5

[Brian S]

The top of my rounder and the sides are all perfect. I can't imagine why that one looks like that?

I think the rust split the seam and someone tried badly to put it back together. Or, the rusting split the frame and it just filled in with Schmutz.

[Greg S]

I don't think the rust did it. Mine has no rust at all.