Spanish Cross Silver "CEJ" with Swords

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello gentlemen,

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As some of you are aware that I recently acquired a Cased Spanish Cross in Silver with swords marked CEJ. The piece was less than textbook, i.e. the maker mark was not on the mark as well as the pebbling in second exterior circle surrounding the Swaz.. However, I felt the example to original based on the construction method and design and just the feel for the piece. Added to that the lack of examples available for research that were produced by Juncker as well as marked CEJ, but were an alloy basesd medal not silver, but rather a nickel silver with a silver plating or buntmetal with a silver-plating with the CEJ maker mark. My research included reference books, inquiries of the better-known dealers to us on the forum as well as a few members well versed in the award. This is not a conclusive statement, but rather a sharing of information.

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JD

[Joseph D'Errico]

One important point worth reference is that all of the dealers/advanced collectors agreed that Juncker marked pieces bearing the CEJ maker mark were not limited to silver content marked pieces, meaning that CEJ marked pieces were produced and marked with the CEJ mark and were alloy base medals as well high silver content pieces. Therefore, to use as a rule of thumb that all CEJ marked pieces must contain high silver content as well as silver mark to be original is incorrect. It is correct however, to say that pieces marked CEJ were produced early on using both alloys which were silver plated as well as high silver content pieces (high silver content pieces being stamped with the silver content)

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In the end, I sent the piece off for an expertise and it was not an original piece. No losses for me as the seller will gladly take the piece back. I am not sure that my research is 100% on the mark as it is still a work in progress. However, after contacting some of our most respected sources and with out suggestion on my part as to who says what, I find it very convincing regarding the collective thoughts CEJ marked pieces.

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In addition, the majority did agree that there is some gray area in reference is subtle differences to the look of CEJ marked pieces..

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I have posted these pictures as well as re-shot them for the benefit of seeing the piece. I also know that there is an article being composed and will forward the pics off if requested. I look forward to anything that anyone has to add and look forward to your responses. I tried to use natural light,but the weather was a little tough on lighting as we are just winding down with a large New England storm.

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Best,

JD

[Joseph D'Errico]

Pictures of the reverse.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Some picture of the hardware as well as CEJ mark.


JD

[stogieman]

An original to compare to.

Sorry Joe, but I disagree with one of your points. I have not seen an original of this award marked CEJ, in a box, that did not also have the silver content punch. Here's one example I just lost out on:

[stogieman]

Reverse:

Shot of the reverse. better pix of this one are not available as I missed out on the piece. Too bad, as it was an original, with the deluxe case.

[stogieman]

Another Example

Photo courtesy of Detlev Niemann, Hamburg ©

[stogieman]

Additional.

This is another example, again Juncker, but not marked to the firm. If you compare the above examples, and this one, to the one you had Joe, you'll see some subtle, yet apparent differences.

[stogieman]

reverse

back of the unmarked (note, it is marked for silver) example

[stogieman]

Just for fun

here's what a correct, deluxe case should look like. Joe's example had (in my eyes) an original case. But there are differences on the cross to the swords, eagles, etc. The mark on Joe's cross does not have a distinct "E". His example had an E that almost looked like it was carefully inscribed by hand. The ends of the horizontal lines trailed off, as opposed to ending nice and crisp.

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Rick,

Just clarification, we are looking for original examples with the CEJ maker markwithout a silver content, we know the silver content varieties exist.

Just my thoughts, Juncker aside from making an inconsistant Swaz didn't have the most consistant maker mark as well.

Rick on the first pic you posted, do you see the rainbow discoloration on the reverse, that is a silverplated badge. High silver content badges do not do that.

Just asking, the pin on the example Rick posted from Detlev, is that a bit long or does it matter, cause that pin is way long.

Best,
JD

PS Also the information that I have posted was gathered in content from different sources and does not represent my own opinion,however I do share some of the thoughts suggested to me.

[Mark S.]

doesnt this look like something was written in the wreath band, then pebbled over?

[stogieman]

RE: Clarification

Hi Joe, I just very carefully re-read your two initial posts and did not see anywhere in them that you were asking strictly for pictures of CEJ marked Spanish Crosses, that do not have silver content marks. Thank you for clarifying this. I cannot provide any examples of a CEJ (boxed) maker-marked Spanish Cross that does not have a silver mark as well, as I have not come across an example like this yet.

For certain, when it comes to certain early Luftwaffe flight badges, we have numerous examples known (and posted in the badge forum) of CEJ (boxed) logos, with no silver content marks. However, with the Spanish Cross, I am unaware of any that have been reviewed on the forum that bear a CEJ (boxed) logo, but have no silver mark with it.

As stated in my initial example posted, the cross shown was one I just missed out on, hence better photos are not available. The second example are archive fotos of a badge I owned and have sold to another forum member.

I am curious, can you share with us the names of your well-known sources and advanced collectors? Or even better, we could invite them to join us and discuss the badge and maker marks here? That way everyone could benefit from their years of experience and research. The sharing of this type of knowledge and experience is exactly the type of thread we need! Since you have conducted extensive research on this subject yourself, did any of your advanced collectors and/or respected dealers share any photographs of Spanish Crosses marked with the boxed CEJ logo, but no silver content marks? If so, would it be possible for you to ask them for permission to post the photos for us to see?

Despite the fact that this is basicly a campaign medal, I too have always held an affinity for the piece as in my eyes, it is one of the nicest examples of the Juncker factory's work ever done, right through the end of the war. The quality, detail and craftsmanship found in original examples is very, very high.

I would love to see any examples of original crosses with the CEJ/no silver combination as if there are original awards of this type out there, it becomes a very interesting quarry for me to add to my "seek and find" list! If Joe doesn't have any, does anyone else have examples they could post for us to see? Thanks!

[stogieman]

RE: The &quot;rainbow&quot;

Hi Joe, yes, a silver badge will most certainly develop various degrees and depths of patina, that when photographed, will often appear exactly as shown in my photograph. The badge I have shown is silver, and not silver-plated as you have stated.
Hi Mark, I see what you mean, the close-up you have boxed in certainly does look like some type of printing/lettering was "stippled" over. Interesting!

[Lorenzo Brown]

Hi Joe, yes, a silver badge will most certainly develop various degrees and depths of patina, that when photographed, will often appear exactly as shown in my photograph. The badge I have shown is silver, and not silver-plated as you have stated.
Hi Mark, I see what you mean, the close-up you have boxed in certainly does look like some type of printing/lettering was "stippled" over. Interesting!

I know little of the badge in question....but I DO KNOW that high quality silver will,in fact, turn "rainbow" colors in certain storage and environmental conditions.