S&L RK Die Repairs

[Peter Wiking]

Jimmy
From my private collection. The quality of this particular piece is very good. Marked 800 on the reverse.

Peter

[Dietrich Maerz]

Dietrich, you've covered some large amount of acreage in this thread with photos of letters regarding crosses received by 'Ron'.

OK.

Exactly which crosses did Ron receive.

This thread is about the SL die repairs.

You can prove 'Ron' received B types with a weak drip or dent row?

Or, haven't we seen SL crosses produced postwar that were not finished to specifications as during the war? Yes we have...

And, you haven't addressed my comments about wear and die pressures...

I always enjoy talking to you Dietrich but you latch onto a conclusion like a pitbull and don't address the holes in your conclusions.

Dear Brian,

posting of some of the Ron papers as well as some other documents was in response to the post that 'stiff penalties after 45' were present regarding anything with a swastika. I think that Peter and myself showed clearly that this was not so.

I don't know what type crosses he received. That was not the point. You are making a point out of it - referencing to the B-Type.

I have addressed the die pressure issue in numerous threads already, giving my opinion about the difference in physical properties of 800 silver compared to 935 silver in relation to a 10 ton press. It's not relevant at all.

And I can also not understand (if you meant that) how a dent can be worn away from the cross. And, yes, I can place the existence of the dent row past 45, as evidenced by the "935", the first model 1957 and the later unmarked, unmagnetic swastika equipped crosses which are clearly a lot later than 57 as witnessed by the new beading flaws. All with the dent row which gets less and less pronounced over the years.

And again, Brian, tell me my conclusions! Refering you to the same question I posted earlier "What conclusions did I make?" And what are the perceived holes in the conclusion I did not make?

[Brian S]

Just looking at the photos above, there is NO progression of the dent row.

As for the Ron papers, a reader could certainly infer per your statement that one of dealers was only 5 miles from SL that that is precisely what you are saying.

As for the drip row, I hope you show the measurements of the bead in nanometers to determine if wear and finishing might have influenced the crispness.

[VIPER]

S@l 57

Thanks Peter......Interesting in that the one illustrated has die flaws. I wish it was able too tell when it was made. In other words was it made at the beginning, middle or end of 57 production........Jimmy

[Dietrich Maerz]

Brian,

yes, it is of course peculiar that Mr. Schiffer was just a few miles away from S&L - a company that is known to produce RK's after the war. I find this very much significant!

I cannot measure in nanometers, not even in micrometers. I don't find this necessary since one can see with bare eyes that the definition gets less and less and that even the dents that were very small in the beginning start to completely disappear during the use of the die. By the way, the same thing that happens in general between early strikes of RK's compared to later ones.

And again, I can not understand how a hole could be worn away by the handling or use of the cross. I can understand that the splatters in the die get worn away, however.

[Peter Wiking]

Thanks Peter......Interesting in that the one illustrated has die flaws. I wish it was able too tell when it was made. In other words was it made at the beginning, middle or end of 57 production........Jimmy

In my humble opinion very early 60's.

Peter

[Brian S]

And again, I can not understand how a hole could be worn away by the handling or use of the cross. I can understand that the splatters in the die get worn away, however.

Not a question of the hole being 'worn away'. Clearly the 'hole' is STILL THERE. It's a question of the crispness of the area SURROUNDING the hole that is at the very top of the crater that can be finished away creating a less 'crisp' looking crater edge.

And yes of course I see and understand the definition of the hole wearing away as the die drips probably got less defined with use, or, you may be wrong, and there is a difference in material used and 10 tons was NOT always the exact consistent pressure on every RK.

Your conclusions require the reader to accept the steps in production. And I don't accept that every cross had an even 10 tons of pressure...

[Dietrich Maerz]

Your conclusions require the reader to accept the steps in production. And I don't accept that every cross had an even 10 tons of pressure...

Again, what's my conclusion?

However, I agree. Whether it's 8 tons or 10 tons or 12 tons (which could be also) is insignificant when we talk about the area of about 20 square milimeter. The pressure is still high enough to make no difference at all.

[Darrell]

Here's some pics of my early 57 with the Die Flaws:

1.

[Darrell]

2.

[Darrell]

3.

[Darrell]

4.

[Darrell]

5.

[Brian S]

Darrell, a very nice and original SL '57. The fit and finish of the cross is nowhere close to the wartime crosses. How about a closeup of that eyelet? Look at the paint. The overall frame finish. Not wartime looking production. Are we to believe the 'B' types which were made according to 'opinions' here finished in an entirely different and more professional manner? Why bother? It's got a swastika, why even pretend to finish to wartime standards? Especially in '57 when no closeups were available and the Internet was only a glimmer in the eye of its inventor Al Gore?

[Darrell]

Darrell, a very nice and original SL '57. The fit and finish of the cross is nowhere close to the wartime crosses. How about a closeup of that eyelet? Look at the paint. The overall frame finish. Not wartime looking production.

I would tend to agree with the finishing, especially the eyelet and loop (attached pic) and the paint (to a certain extent). Due to some poorboy photo-editing, the paint looks wierd. The reverse especially is very smooth and doesnt have that edited texture.

Here's a few more:

Eyelet: