schickle RK

[Brian S]

Tom, you have a bad habit of ignoring the inconsistencies of your previous posts when someone points them out.

NO BONE BLACK!

This was a huge "discovery" for you when it was applied to Rounders.

[Brian S]

...hmmmmm.


Discovery, or should I say PROOF they were not wartime or at least EVIDENCE they are not wartime as ALL other RKs have bone black...

[Brian S]

Tom, you can ignore my posts with regard to the bone black all day and night but I'll just continue on until everyone else gets the significance of this point with regard to YOUR previous conclusions. So deal with it now, or it just gets repeated over and over until you do.

[Brian S]

...and as you see, I too can take up real estate in your thread until my issue is addressed.

[George Stimson]

I have to go out for several hours, gents, so I hope everything can proceed smoothly and civilly until I get back.
(Thank you! )

[tom hansen]

I am sorry, Dietich. My interpretation of what you wrote is that non-standard materials essentially means post war. If that is not what you intended, please clarify.


The thing I am trying to figure out here is whether this schickle, or any schickle, is wartime production. The paint on this piece is similar to that on period EK2s tested, which is a plus. Silver plate is odd, and in my opinon, a negative. If this was a PK numbered cross or an official award, I would think that would be an indication of post war production. Becuase it is a commercial piece I do not think that situation applies as clearly.


Brian- I did not ignore your posts. My computer was on at work for several hours. Bone black- all the other RKs, with the exception of the rounder, showed bone black paint. There was no other piece, either a RK, EK1, or EK2 that showed paint similar to the rounder. It was, and still is, unique. Does that make it a fake? No. I personally think there are a number of other issues with the rounder beyond the issue of no matching paint. There are, however, many other pieces to test if one is so inclined that may show a similar paint. The schickle showed different paint than other RKs, but has paint identical to other period pieces. Does this make it a fake? No. But I would have been more pleased if it had the bone black paint as seen on other RKs, despite the match with the other wartime pieces.

With regard to the schickle, I am trying to collect information to get an appreciation whether this is a wartime piece or not. I guess Gordon and Detlev think so, but do we know? The paint on the schickle, while not bone black, matches that on other EK2s. I think it is curious that it is not bone black, however. Again, there are two other pieces tested with nearly the identical paint. Beyond testing a Deumer piece, I do not intend to do SEM on any other pieces, as that will be the last 3/4 ring "lead" that I explore.

If one is inclined to explore the rounder, which it seems few are, here are a few key issues which could be tested. As I have tested the schickle, rounder owners could answer alot of these questions on the period of a few weeks with little expense. However, I do not see that coming anytime soon -

1. Find another wartime piece, any piece, with similar paint. The simple presence of a paint used on other wartime pieces would indicate that this particular paint with its unique characteristics was used wartime. Lack of any other piece with this paint would be disturbing

2. Check a number of rounders to see if others are silver plated with 800 stamps. This would require looking at pieces with wear, as was found on the schickle, only worn areas will show the base metal below. The presence of further 800 stamped silver plated pieces would be particularly disturbing. Why are other silver plated pieces, as the one Gordon shows in his book and this schickle, not 800 stamped?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Thank you Tom for the advise how to tackle the Rounder issue. Now I know finally what I need to do.

Dietrich

[tom hansen]

<HR style="COLOR: #181b16" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Thank you Tom for the advise how to tackle the Rounder issue. Now I know finally what I need to do.


Dietrich
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
Scio Nescio


Sadly, that is about all that would need to be done. However, I am beginning to believe that the rounder owners do not want to know the truth, as I suspect that the truth will sting. Therefore, there will never be a formal forensic evaluation of that piece, as there is no interest in proving that a piece that one owns is potentially a fake. Those that have the pieces are the only ones in a position to test them. To date, you are the only one that has begun this. Among other owners there is a deafening silence. If they are wartime, let the testing prove it. The truth will come out. I suspect that if examined, the majority, if not all, of the rounders will probably be silver plated and stamped 800. How would one explain that?

[Dietrich Maerz]

Tom,

you don't know what you are talking about, again!

You cannot even start to imagine what kind of study, investigation and talks I've done regarding this subject. Just because you think the other owners are quiet does not mean they are not talking to me! Maybe not to you, but definetely to me!

And I kindly ask you to refrain from another set of unfounded and childish assertions such as "I suspect that if examined, the majority, if not all, of the rounders will probably be silver plated and stamped 800. How would one explain that?"

You are on the verge of starting another Hansen postulate such as "ALL Rk's have bone paint" - something you yourself proved wrong!

Sometimes I have the very, very strong feeling you are only reading what you want to read - mostly your own posts. In case you forgot - my Rounder is made of silver and at least another one has the etched frosting.That already proves half of your latest "postulate" wrong after about 30 minutes! A new record even for you!

You are so proudly stating that the Schickle is in Gordon's book (and must be real therefore, I guess...). Have you forgotten that the Rounder is also in Gordon's book? And this you do not believe? There you put your immense investigation into the Rounder above Gordon's?

Think about it!

Dietrich

[Brian S]

Tom, you can be such a pompous ass. You can buy all the RKs known to man and still know nothing. I love your comment that the Schickle paint "while not bone black, matches that on other EK2s". Ha! That is such blatant bull $hit. Come on Tom. This thread has become nothing more than a outpouring of pure nonsense from you.

[Brian S]

"However, I am beginning to believe that the rounder owners do not want to know the truth, as I suspect that the truth will sting. Therefore, there will never be a formal forensic evaluation of that piece, as there is no interest in proving that a piece that one owns is potentially a fake."

This kind of garbage stinks. Frankly if this is what the 'management' here considers "conversation" I want no part of it.

[George Stimson]

"Frankly if this is what the 'management' here considers "conversation" I want no part of it."

Unfortunately, I'm something of a "Free Speech" freak, so I believe in letting people say pretty much whatever they want unless they start personally attacking other participants. That said, my attitude extends to all sides of any debates. So I would really encourage everyone to continue to express their (very often differing) points of view -- in a civil and intelligent manner. That's the way we'll really get answers to the questions we have.
Thank you.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Dave Kane]

I may be wrong and surely have been in the past but I think that Tom is attempting to (prove) or otherwise that the SCHICKLE Knight's Cross is war time or post!


What I have taken from Tom's posts is his ability NOT to associate feelings and $$ with these things and plod along....


At the very least his 'abstract' approach keeps discussion going....


The 'squeaky' something or other gets the oil!! This is well proven

[George Stimson]

"The 'squeaky' something or other gets the oil!! This is well proven"

Dave, sometimes the squeaky something or other gets replaced! <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Brian S]

I'm direct, of that there is not debate. Tom's posts are of a passive aggressive nature and do NOT get past my understanding. I say it with fewer words but if you $hit on my plate I'll return the same.