STUNNING news for the EK collecting world

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Tim,

I would not enjoy to have that one either but maybe I am just a burned child now. Looks like somebody tried his artistic luck with a pin from a Close Combat or Flight Clasp. Pin hardly makes it to the catch. Jeweller piece? Well, maybe. But also maybe I could create a better looking one myself!

P.S.: Seems fishy that he has to advertise this with an opened up "The Iron Time" underneath it.

Cheers, Frank H.

[Rich G]

This is a super thread!

I must admit that I could never get my head around these combos as everyone I've seen just seemed wrong for one reason or another.

If anyone has one that is undeniably orginial, and by that I mean it came directly from the original receipant, could they post if here to show how it really should look?

Much appreciated, and thanks to Frank and all those who contributed into making this such an important thread.

Rich

[Tim B.]

Frank!!!

You've already read my e-mail on what I think of it.
Tim

[Gordon Williamson]

The problem with jeweller conversions is that there is no way of knowing if it was converted by a jeweller in 1940 or in 1980. If genuine compenents have been used and it was skillfully done, it wouldn't be easy to tell. Even if I was convinced it was a period conversion and I have seen a few I do believe were from the period, I wouldn't pay much more that the combined value of an EK1 and an EK1 Spange.
Official factory made pieces are invariably extremely well made with perfect alignment of the pieces, hairline tight seams etc and with the frosting to the finish which would be harder to replicate if it had been put together postwar after removing the hinge etc from a standard Spange.
I've never had one with provenance to an actual original owner, but Pieter Verbruggen hoes have a nice cased example by L/18 which does have provevnace to its original owner.

This is the only factory made one I have handled recently that I have total faith in, coincidentally also an L/18, but pinback whilst Pieter's is screwback.

This type, i.e. using a Third Reich period produced replacement 1914 EK1 is the only type I'd personally be prepared to buy.

[Rich G]

Thanks Gordon!

For me, that by far is the only convincing one of these combo's that I've ever seen and knowing that it came directly from the owner is a bonus.

Cheers

Rich

[eindecker2]

I have seen these also coming up very frequently here in Hungary - watch out - I have seen the type posted here - also unmarked - several odd marks and ones with various hinge-pin combinations that could be directly attributed to period custom pieces - I think they got a copy of 'the iron time' and went to town - so far I cna tell that they have one core and frame die and too much extra time on their hands to make up the reverse details. Wish I could get some photos for everyone....

[dm5000]

How about some pictures....

Thank you Frank....

I’m also heartbroken; I don’t own this Junkers combo but I have admired it from afar. I’m also heartbroken because I have been raving about how Gordon's new book was the only reference work I own without at least one fake! If both Gordon and Detlev are on board that this item is a fake, I’m going to assume it’s a fake until proven otherwise.

I understand what you are saying about the "period" mistake in the address. While it seems unlikely Junkers would make such a mistake, it isn’t quite proof in itself. I also assume we aren’t talking about weights here. So, the die doesn’t match known Junkers?

For our own piece of mind, could someone please post some comparison pictures of the differing die characteristics? Pictures of the “smoking gun” please….

Thanks again for your great detective work Frank.

Dave

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Dave,

This TYPE combo is a fake, no matter if it has the full stop or not after the 13!

Cheers, Frank H.

[dm5000]

Ok....

Ok...

What is the evidence for this being a fake?

Dave

[Calvin Hall]

Hello All,

When did this fake (now) Junkers combo first appear on the market, i.e. how long has this one been in circulation?

Calvin

[Frank Heukemes]

@ Dave: It didn´t feel good when I HELD it, although it looks great on the pics. But even more important, it is my assumption that Detlev knows very well why these are fake. Pressing him for an answer is none of my business. If he is willing to, he will talk.

@Chall: In this very thread Bill Stump says he knows this since October last year (when he learned about the latest fakes and also saw that Juncker combo).

But even more back in time is Detlev´s price guide, where the combo was listed because Detlev assumed THEN that it was original. Book was printed in Jan. 1999, compiled in 1988. So at least it is around for 4 years.

I don´t know more because I saw that Juncker combo first in the price guide and just very recently I handled an example myself.

Cheers, Frank H.

[dm5000]

OK...

Thanks. Im sure Detlev will let us know what he thinks, he always weighs in when it is important.

I was under the impression that you (Frank) had compared die characteristics and found that either the spange or cross was not a Junckers.

My misunderstanding. I am interested to know how Detlev and or Gordon came to their conclusions. More proof that EVERYONE gets fooled sometimes. Education and experience just reduce the frequency.

Not a happy day for EK collectors...
Dave

[Frank Heukemes]

I am sorry this is so complicated. I DID compare characteristics and found out that the badge I handled did not conform with the Detlev badge shown in his book and Gordon´s book ( one and the same badge). I then approached Detlev, who told me that THIS JUNCKER TYPE in general is not genuine. Whether it conforms to Detlev´s badge or not, if it has the full stop or not.

Essence: If you see a EK combo that looks VAGUELY like the one shown at the beginning of this thread (like e.g. the example shown by Bill Stump)------> RUN!

Cheers, Frank H.