STUNNING news for the EK collecting world

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear all,

Let me start this right, so everything is told as it happened without hiding anything.

For me, it all started with buying a very interesting EK 1914 with attached Spange 1939 combo made by Juncker from the e-stand. Or so I and the seller thought, but read on.

After receiving the combo, despite the overall convincing looks, I thought something might not be quite right with it as it differed in a few tiny but important aspects from the combo of the very same kind pictured in both Detlev Niemann´s price guide and Gordon Williamson´s book.

There is no doubt to me that the seller, Bill Dienna, a very honourable Association member, did not know that this combo could be anything less than the rare original made by Juncker. I sent the badge back and got an immediate refund. Bill and me discussed where the combo came from, etc. and there is not one grain of doubt that Bill (as much as me when I inteded to buy it) thought this combo was "real".

Before I decided to send it back, I made good pictures and send them out to Gordon Williamson and Detlev Niemann to get their opinion. Detlev was on a vacation, but Gordon answered immediately confirming my doubts and telling me that this combo MIGHT be real but certainly differs from the one pictured in Detlev´s guide and Gordon´s book (which, by the way are the identical, very same item), which would always leave doubts on the item in question.

Detlev answered me as soon as he was back from his vacation with stunning news. He is now convinced that this type of Juncker combo in general is a modern creation that never existed pre 1945. He will also remove this item from the next issue of his sales guide. Gordon will also have it removed from further prints of his book, but Gordon will comment on this himself.

I presume that there are definitely very good reasons for Detlev to come out with this firm statement now, but I do not know them. I did not further inquire why he thinks so now. It is none of my business and if Detlev wants to comment, he can do so here.

I have discussed my intention to post this here in the forum before with Detlev Niemann, Gordon Williamson and Bill Dienna. All gave me their permission and ecouraged me to inform the collecting community with this great, stunning but also somehow sad news.

To say it again in short with the essential info in one sentence: These awards pictured below are FANTASY items. However, original Juncker combos CAN be found, but they do not have this addressplate, have different features and are marked L/12.

Following are some pics:

-one pic of the badge pictured in both Detlev´s and Gordon´s books, credited to Detlev Niemann

-a series of colour pics of the badge owned by Bill Dienna, pics made by myself, posted here with the permission of Bill Dienna.

Cheers, Frank H.

Here is Detlev´s picture:

[Frank Heukemes]

And here is the badge from the e-stand:

[Frank Heukemes]

reverse

[Frank Heukemes]

Juncker maker´s mark. Note the differences compared to the item in Detlev´s picture. However, BOTH are fantasy.

The street number 13 has a period after the 13 on this item, there is no period after Detlev´s 13

German street addresses NEVER have a period after the number. It is very interesting that street adresse in most Eastern European countries do have that period after the number! Maybe the e-stand item was the first version and lateron the fakers created an improved fake without the period. There are also differences between the two in the pin, width of the EK arms and some other minor things.

EK core looks frighteningly real, you say? You might be right. Remember that the fakers could have used REAL EK 1914 iron cores/frames to create these fantasy items.

[W. C. Stump]

ANOTHER FAKE

Here is another fake that is coming out of the former Soviet Republics. I photographed this example last October.

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Bill,

Thanks much for that pic. I can see your item is the same type as the one that was on the e-stand. Has the period and the same type pin.

Cheers, Frank H.

[Tony Barto]

Man.....these repops are getting scarey!! Thanks for the information Frank. Perhaps this thread could be copied to the Associations site on reproductions for permanent record.

[Blitz]

Thanks for the info Frank We all owe you one.

[George Stimson]

Yes indeed, Frank! That's great work!

George

[François SAEZ]

merci Frank

[stogieman]

Excellent Detective Work!

Nice work and research Frank. Thanks! Kudos to all involved, as well. I agree with Tony, this is getting downright scary. At some point, the re-pops will seriously affect the interest, and perceived values of even the real items.

[christian]

Frank,

thank you very much for sharing that infos !! Very important to know that to be able to avoid that pre war production

Christian

[Frank Heukemes]

Thanks for your kind words; but in fact, thanks go out to Detlev, Gordon and Bill. I just gathered what they were throwing at me and stirred

Cheers, Frank H.

[Bill D.]

Certainly this was dissapointing news, but like everyone else I am indebted to Frank for his careful analysis on behalf of every collector in this hobby. When I aquired this piece it looked to me to be virtually identical to the example in Detlev's book, having overlooked the critical detail of the full-stop after the number "13" as being present on my example but absent on the example in Detlev's book.

This hobby has indeed become a minefield, and I only hope that this latest detonation, exploding a mythical EK Combo, will prevent other collectors from taking a bad wound in their wallets!
My own was not minor, but better to make an "involuntary contribution" to the knowledge of the hobby than to see these damnable fantasy pieces further pollute the collecting field.

When I receive the cross back from Frank I will indelibly etch it with the word "Fake". If anyone has a tunic that is set up for an EK / Spange combo, and would like a nice-looking fake for diplay purposes, simply let me know. You may have this one for the cost of mailing it to you.

Thanks again, frank!

[Gordon Williamson]

Like Frank I haven't heard the reasons why Detlev now feels that this type of EK/Spange combo is fake, but if he is certain enough of his facts to pull it from his own book, then there is at the very least considerable doubt about it and I'll ask that Roger pulls it from any future editions of my EK book.
I missed the piece in question when it was old on the e-stand and only had reverse photos from Detlev.
Full marks to Frank for the detective work, to Bill for taking the bad news like a true gentleman and to Detlev for making us aware.
Yet another pointer (not that another was needed!) of just how dangerous this hobby is becoming.