Förster und Barth RK!?!?

[milsurp]

Hello,

I don't think comparing mm's between awards can be used to intimate if an award piece is genuine or not. If you take K&Q as an example, there are different stamps for each award.

For what it's worth.

I checked my two L/21 marked badges(Sub & Aux Cruiser) to compare the maker's marks. Apparently F&B had at least two L/21 stamps. The stamp on this KC doesn't match the two that I have. There is an obvious style difference in the slash and numbers.

Maybe someone can further elaborate and post examples of L/21 markings.

Tony

[Tiger 1]

Craig,

I know what you mean. Different decorations on ocassion have different size mms.

My question was about what I observed regarding the small L/21 incused rectangular stamp with the raised lettering. I may not have been clear about that earlier. The letter and number style on the KC loop looks a lot like on the repro L/21 marked EKIs with the screwback. The font is 'thick' for the want of a better description. Compare the two mm that are on the KC and the one that George shows. they certainly are different stamps.

Just some thoughts,

Tony

[milsurp]

- I know where you're coming from Tony.

I really don't like that suspension loop and I would even go as far to suggest it has been stamped fairly recently. Comparing the lack of patina in the recess of the L/21 with that of the 935, is conclusive in my opinion. The cross on the other hand is anyone's guess.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here's another one. From an advanced German collector.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Reverse

[Dietrich Maerz]

The marking

[Dietrich Maerz]

31.5 gr. with loop, magnetic core, 48.3 mm wide, 54.3 mm high.

Dietrich

[Biro]

So by my count, that makes three 'physical' sightings..

possibly 4 ..Knights cross

and maybe even 5 ... http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...6&postcount=53

And the L/21 loop markings seem consistant...?

Fascinating.

Marshall

[Brian S]

Let's see what we have here if I may borrow some logic from a currently unavailable member and another member who vehemently agreed:

1) None with rock solid provenance.

2) Only now we see a few appear.

3) No photographic evidence of one in wear.

4) No catalog showing photo of cross.

5) Maker mark not exactly matched to another of the same maker.

6) Will the paint match perfectly in 'scientific' FTIR analysis to another L/21 piece.

Personally I think the cross has a lot of promise, but it's something less than amazing to watch the proof of wartime existence requirements ebb and tide with the item and the amount of emotion tied to it.

Do questions 1-6 need to be answered, or is a Holy War about to erupt?

[Dave Kane]

A blind man could 'see' that the cores are different...

[Darrell]

Speckled DKiG for example!

C'mon Dave ... please comment on this thread. You seem to be quite quiet ....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=131922

[Biro]

The rather excessively priced - and I thought quite convincing - Forster and Barth RK that started this thread has now sold, primarily thanks to Winklers 30% Xmas discount...

Perhaps it went to someone here?

Marshall

[StefanK.]

Hello All,

maybe a silly question, but where do you see differences between L/21 and S&L crosses? I am not that experienced on the S&L field but to me even the stamping "800" looks the same as on S&L Ritterkreuzen.


Stefan

[Leroy]

There are several very good threads on this forum concerning S&L crosses. Just do a search for "S&L RK" or "S&L Knight's Cross". One thing to certainly look for is a "stair-step" effect on the rim beading in the corners, which really helps to identify them. I'm sure others (such as Dietrich) can point out more features.

[StefanK.]

Hello Leroy,

thanks for your help. I do know how a typical S&L should look like, therefore i find it quite strange that some say that they (S&L, F&B) are completely different. Some weeks ago even experienced collectors couldn't distiunguish between Niemann's -as Zimmermann described - S&L and Zimmemann. Now, reading this about F&B crosses (seems like a faity-tale for me) i feel a bit confused because i can not see the slightest difference. So where are these differences?

Stefan