Clasp to the iron cross 23mm for the medal bar

[Edward 1970]

Hi Friends !!

Please , I want to know if this Clasp is original or not ?

Many thanks in advance.

[Edward 1970]

[Edward 1970]

I will add some more photos. The sign is made in zinc. From under the final coating layer, a layer of copper coating appears which gives green oxide. This is normal? There are also direct furrows from cutting down.

[CMSgt]

spange

It is an S&L. Jim

[ben bijker]

Imo it’s a case copy of an S&L Prinzen

Originals have a very smooth finish and are much thinner

[ben bijker]

Here’s an original, even with my crappy pic the difference is clear

[Edward 1970]

Here’s an original, even with my crappy pic the difference is clear

Is your example made in zinc in the photo?

[ben bijker]

No, I am prett much convinced that all Prinzen are Buntmetall.

Will post Some additional pics tomorrow

[Edward 1970]

No, I am prett much convinced that all Prinzen are Buntmetall.

Will post Some additional pics tomorrow

You said that ALMOST convinced! So there is no 100% certainty. See the same topic in another forum.

[ben bijker]

Ok, I will put it like this.

I have handled at least 20 Prinzen Spange.
All were thin, nicely struck amd Buntmetall.
I haven't seen a Prinzen in zinc since I started collecting years ago.
Since these are early war I would expect high quality in Buntmetall.

But since I can't prove it either way I write " pretty much convinced".


An S&L Prinzen in Buntmetall is only 1,77 mm thick, your's is at least double.
It's 25,01 mm high
It's 24,28 mm wide
( I weighed and measured it for Mario Alt's book )

I am NOT saying it isn't possible, but I do think it is not very likely.
Do you have any other info on where it came from ?


What is the square thing on top of the head??

[Edward 1970]

Ok, I will put it like this.

I have handled at least 20 Prinzen Spange.
All were thin, nicely struck amd Buntmetall.
I haven't seen a Prinzen in zinc since I started collecting years ago.
Since these are early war I would expect high quality in Buntmetall.

But since I can't prove it either way I write " pretty much convinced".


An S&L Prinzen in Buntmetall is only 1,77 mm thick, your's is at least double.
It's 25,01 mm high
It's 24,28 mm wide
( I weighed and measured it for Mario Alt's book )

I am NOT saying it isn't possible, but I do think it is not very likely.
Do you have any other info on where it came from ?


What is the square thing on top of the head??

My friend, do you really think that everything is already known and that discoveries in our time are no longer possible ?? )))
Do not get me wrong, but you can not compare Buntmetall products and zinc products. These are completely different things and different technologies of production. Zinc products are always thicker than the same Buntmetall products. The defect in the form of blisters and tubercles takes place on zinc products, and this once again testifies to the authenticity of the item. There are also no sinks and indentations that are necessarily present during injection molding. The technology of production of this fastener corresponds to the period of 3 Reich. For example, on the edge there are straight lines from vertical cutting by a stamp, copper oxide protrudes from under the final coating, which indicates the presence of copper soil. The stamp with which this fastener was made corresponds to S&L. There are watermarks that cannot be repeated when injection molding. (see photo) The edges are clear, without roundness, polished edges and a swastika, the shagreen pattern coincides. There are traces of time, such as patina and scuffs. With a strong increase, the patina shimmers with different color shades, while the artificial patina is always only black ...
In general, I believe that the intuition of the collector did not disappoint me and, together with the original medal bar, I got a rare S & L Prinzen in zinc!
P.S. I took measurements with a caliper. Height 25.01 mm., Width 24.30 mm., Thickness 2.00 mm. I can take a photo of measurements.
Demonstration of the medal bar in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1042205

[ben bijker]

No, I don't think everything is known already, nor do I claim that I have seen it all.
Sure, new things pop up from time to time.

The clasp looks much thicker from the pic though.


The thing that really puzzles me is that the condition of your clasp getting worse from bottom to top.

The square on the head is odd.

As long as you like it: good for you.
It may be a very rare S&L clasp in zinc.

I can't prove it's no good, so maybe your intuition is better then mine...

[ben bijker]

Die is different as well...

I don't recall I have seen a copper-coated zinc clasp ever....

Schermafbeelding 2020-07-22 om 19.31.25.png

[Dietrich Maerz]

I think it is either the same mother die or the zinc Spange was created using the Tombak model. The general question is this: why would S&L have two parallel or sequential models, one being of very low quality. If one considers that the use of zinc was late and that these 25 mm Spangen were only sold via the LDO one would think that a late model from S&L would be marked "L/16". Furthermore, the market for 25 mm Spangen was not that big, especially not later in the war. This all makes no sense and does not speak well for this model. It could very well be a post-war cast.

[ben bijker]

Maybe this will change your mind on your clasp...


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