Pic 1958

[St.&L.]

The point that small round pins are the earliest is not arguable, however it does appear to me that they were used simultaneously at some point and as David's IAB's illustrate very similar quality strikes can be found on badges with both round and flat pins.

Although i don't think that they where used simultaneously i'm with you, Mike.

This here i think is a good example for a two pieces with very nice frosting and polished parts - in short good quality pieces - one with a flattened wide round pin and one with the earlier "wartime" pin.

[Mike Yokum]

Hey! The CCC in Silver with wide pin you show from Thomas is mine!!!

[Mike Yokum]

back

[St.&L.]

Hey! The CCC in Silver with wide pin you show from Thomas is mine!!!

Congrats on a great piece, Mike!

[vic007]

Thanks a lot guys.
I learned a thing or two with this discussion.

Best regards

stijn

[DavidM]

I do not really understand why we really discuss if the round flattened wide pins perhaps are the first or earlier setups, although we all know that they were produced till today. But will we find the simple round pins on modern pieces? No.

Hello

No one is suggesting that the round pin versions are anything but the earliest made new form items, and the discussion wasn't about that. We got into a debate around the illustration in Stijns book and whether the wider/flatter type pin can be seen on early pieces, and I think that this is now established.

A good discussion all round

Regards
David

[Mike Yokum]

Also of importance to mention is that CCC's, EKI's, KvK1's etc would not fall into the same category as qualification badges. The very earliest EK's and KvK1's did not have small, round pins, but the wider pins as seen in the IAB ilustration. This is also proves that the two pins types existed simultaneously and could therefore have possibly been used simultaneously.

[St.&L.]

Also of importance to mention is that CCC's, EKI's, KvK1's etc would not fall into the same category as qualification badges. The very earliest EK's and KvK1's did not have small, round pins, but the wider pins as seen in the IAB ilustration. This is also proves that the two pins types existed simultaneously and could therefore have possibly been used simultaneously.

Right, but the pins of ccc, ek... were flat wire pins, propable wartime production and have nothing to do wit the later flattened wide round pins on combat/qualification awards like we talked about.
Small round pins and flattened wide round pins were not used simultaneously imo. The wide flat wire and the small round pins of course yes, although not on the same types of awards.