Pic 1958

[Nigel N]

As for Mikes WB's, the one on the right looks crisper and slightly more detailed, but i actually prefer the " look " of the left hand one!!!!!
Dont keep us dangling too longsmiley-whacky097.gif -Nigel
Forgot to say, round pin on left????

[DavidM]

Hello

So scores at the moment are:

3 for the IAB in post #22 being the earliest (therefore the round pin one)

1 for the IAB in post #23 being the early one

Regards
David

[DavidM]

Dont keep us dangling too long[ATTACH]1354216[/ATTACH] -Nigel

Oh, alright then Nigel.

Out my IABs the earlier, round pin one is the one in post #23

Here's the one shown in post #22, but with the pin shown, (I've slightly brightened the photo to allow the pin to be properly seen). Clearly an early one, but with the wide/fatter pin.

Regards
David

[DavidM]

And here's the one from post #23

[DavidM]

Rear of both IABs

[DavidM]

View of the hinge block round pin version

[DavidM]

View of the hinge block wide/fatter type pin

[DavidM]

Finally, the two IABs in glorious technocolour (as in how the raw images came out) First up is the one from post #22 with the wide/fatter pin

[DavidM]

The one from post #23

[Seewolf]

Again my old eyes
I haven´t expected that
But i do believe that the first production has been made with the round style pin and a little later they switched to this wider pin. Can´t say the year they switched, maybe the early 60s.
My way of collecting is....i try to get all my pieces with the round pin. But some, as my HSF badge, who are really hard to find, i buy too with a wide pin when the hingeblock is solid.

[Mike Yokum]

What a great thread this is! I love it!

I'm late to the party as the forum has been down at each opportunity I had to get on this morning! I can honestly say I would have chosen the IAB in post 23 as to me it has the crisper strike, although it was a tough choice! They appear that they could be contemporary in manufacture dates. Amazing that the wide pin IAB has nearly the EXACT same shape as the one in the illustration.

I can also honestly state that I would pick the SWB on the right as the earlier, again for the same reason, crispness of strike. But in the case of the wound badges, the one on the LEFT has the round pin. In hand the right SWB CLEARLY has a more crisp strike and far better finishing. I've taken another shot of the two, this time side by side. The last was a cut and paste job and the one on the right had a different color (blueish hue) to it and was a bit deceiving. Check the highlighted areas for difference in strike quality. I still contend the right badge has the earlier crisper strike AND burnishing which is typically only seen on the earlier pieces.

The debate continues!!!

[Mike Yokum]

And the pins...

[St.&L.]

Hello Mike,

you compare two pieces from two different dies imo. Cause your comparison pics and the marked areas not only show differences in crispness, but also obvious differences of shapes and design.

Left one is an earlier piece, right one is made later and on another die.

_________

I do not really understand why we really discuss if the round flattened wide pins perhaps are the first or earlier setups, although we all know that they were produced till today. But will we find the simple round pins on modern pieces? No.

[George L]

Nice thread, y'all! I noticed the illustration, too, in my copy, but didn't think much of it, because it wasn't a real photo.

I have two early S&L DKiG's; one with a wide pin, and one with the later semi-flat needle type. Looking only at the front, as David did with his IAB's, they are identical in quality, and finish! As I think St&L alluded to, I find the round pins on the assault badges more appealing as we know those were only found on early badges. The semi-flat pin jobs, unfortunately, are also found on more modern junk, and hence a less favorable impression by collectors.

[Mike Yokum]

Left one is an earlier piece, right one is made later and on another die.

_________

I do not really understand why we really discuss if the round flattened wide pins perhaps are the first or earlier setups, although we all know that they were produced till today. But will we find the simple round pins on modern pieces? No.

Upon further review, I think you are correct that the badges are definitely from two different dies. When I compare the SWB on the left with my GWB, also with small, round pin, the die characteristics match much more closely.

The point that small round pins are the earliest is not arguable, however it does appear to me that they were used simultaneously at some point and as David's IAB's illustrate very similar quality strikes can be found on badges with both round and flat pins.