Help on Japanese Sword

[N.C. Wyeth]

I remember that wager . . .

Pictures should still be online, they were hosted where I pay for them being hosted. If you can't see them, empty the cache of your browser plus delete the cookies, then log in again.

BobI, I honestly don't know if Kevin took your bet. My feeling is simply that you on the one hand said you would give him $ 1000 if this blade is original and were 100% sure it can't be original, but on the other hand PM'd me that you'd buy it from me. How can anyone in here reading an entry from you now believe in what you said is correct and trust you to sell something to you? If you'd however pay Kevin the $ 1000 you said you would give him if its original, well then anyone can see that you simply were such sure of what you believed in (to your best belief), but on the other hand kept your promises. So for me more a moral thing/affair of honour.

I'll be very happy to post pictures of the blade when it is fully polished and papers are granted, but this will take some time. Updates when I know more!

Keep him honest, Promo - don't let him wiggle away!

[BobI]

Keep him honest, Promo - don't let him wiggle away!

You two are silly, go back and read what I wrote and Kevin's response
Bob

[Promo]

BobI, not sure what game you want to play in here. You without any doubt several times based on pictures claimed my blade is Gimei. Now you claim if Japan needs to see it in person, how could you tell it and you are no expert? Well, if you can't tell it, why do you then give your opinion and even say you'd pay Kevin $ 1000 if this one turns out to be original?

My blade was handed over to a dealer and member of the European NBTHK. He acted as an agent since he has a lot of experience with this and exported the blade to his contact in Japan. The contact in Japan presented the blade in the condition as shown to Tanobe san who said it is authentic. The same person then submitted the blade in the same condition to NBTHK December Shinsa where NBHTK as a result said the blade is authentic, but to get the certificate they want to see it in polish first (if there is any structural damage). I informed you of this in advance and will be very happy to show it in full polish and paperwork once I have everything back.

Yes, you are right. I am far from an expert on Japanese items. But all that I've posted in my update is the information that I have been provided from persons who do this as their main profession.

If you have forgotten on your PM I can post it here in public as a full quote if you want me to. Just as a friendly reminder of your own words and maybe for others to assess your integrity.

[BobI]

BobI, not sure what game you want to play in here. You without any doubt several times based on pictures claimed my blade is Gimei. Now you claim if Japan needs to see it in person, how could you tell it and you are no expert? Well, if you can't tell it, why do you then give your opinion and even say you'd pay Kevin $ 1000 if this one turns out to be original?

Promo(or whatever your name really is) Read Kevin's your and my public posts to clarify all or maybe English is not your first language so in that case I can understand why you do not properly understand all I have written.

My blade was handed over to a dealer and member of the European NBTHK. He acted as an agent since he has a lot of experience with this and exported the blade to his contact in Japan. The contact in Japan presented the blade in the condition as shown to Tanobe san who said it is authentic. The same person then submitted the blade in the same condition to NBTHK December Shinsa where NBHTK as a result said the blade is authentic, but to get the certificate they want to see it in polish first (if there is any structural damage).

I never said anything for 100% for accuracy but I am still not positive your sword will pass. "maybe" it will but that is not certain yet. Swords are a business and there are many people that need to eat in a decimated market that is quickly becoming far worse.

Yes, you are right. I am far from an expert on Japanese items. But all that I've posted in my update is the information that I have been provided from persons who do this as their main profession.

Yea, not my main profession but I have collected them for 40 years. No, I do not study them anymore as I used to but still remember a little bit. Not much gray mater left but there are still some non degraded spots in my brain

If you have forgotten on your PM I can post it here in public as a full quote if you want me to. Just as a friendly reminder of your own words and maybe for others to assess your integrity

Post anything you like, I promise I will not lose any sleep over it. Just remember, read everything posted publicly too, otherwise it is an incomplete story as your thing about 1000 dollars. Read the posts, you really need to do that!

This is causing me too much stress, I am going to take my Ferrari and figure out which car to add to that collection. Cars and swords are in the toilet, great time to buy!

Bob

PS- Seriously all, careful this virus is getting serious, wash your hands and don't touch your face!!!

[BobI]

Promo,
One last thing, I am having fun watching what you wright since you did not seem to read all responses on this public thread.
Why don't you just go ahead and post my PM to you, I am sure it is the same thing I already stated publicly.
Lastly, you still do not have papers, only an opinion. That can and most likely will change, as Nick asked, who is doing the polish?
Honestly, I am already a bit worried for you. I would really want to figure out if there are any structural problems before I had it polished, not after. Yes, for the most part they should be able to tell if it will take a polish. It is always a gamble but.... experience with knowledgeable people should really know if it will turn out without "structural" issues.
Bob

[Beater]

Wow, I've been absent from this forum for some time (wonder why?) and decided to catch up and find myself at the centre of conversation concerning a bet. I never bet, so BobI's invitation was never taken-up. So whatever the outcome of the shinsa, you can keep your $'s Bob.

Apart from Promo of course, no one could be more pleased with the positive news to come back from Tenobe sensei and the shinsa panel. Of course having the papers (and sword) in hand will be the final testiment. Nevertheless, the feeling of being seemingly right in my belief regarding this sword, based on a great deal of research and reams of written exchanges with Promo over the last year, is worth much more to me than BobI's $'s.

I could never say with certainty this sword was right, only the Japanese can make that decision but I could see plenty to suggest it could well be. Without re-reading everything in this thread, I believe all I did is challenge those who cried gimei, to provide some reasons / evidence and not just assert this opinion on the balance of probabilities - that most famous name swords are indeed fake.

Something I have learned today is that swords are apparently amongst the dirtiest arenas in which to get involved - that and diamonds - in which BobI also has experience. This came as a surprise to me as most of my friends and sword-contacts are very trustworthy and honourable. Just shows how naive I am too.

Can't wait to see the sword post polish. I would be confident of a good outcome of that too, as it appears both healthy and free from obvious flaws.

Bye everyone.

[Lampwick]

" those who cried gimei" All I would cry is "gimmee dat ting!"

[BenVK]

Unfortunately it's all too common for people to fall out with each other when something very valuable is discovered.

There will be people who are genuinely pleased for others and those who are not, for whatever reasons.

From what you've written here Bob, which is a lot, I now know which category to put you in and I'm very disappointed to be honest. I've read your posts countless times searching for the positive but all I get is bitterness, negativity and quite a lot of jealousy.

As for the bet, your excuses are typical, in my experience, of people who challenge others but have no intention of actually paying up when they loose.

So basically, not cool at all Bob but actually and despite your intentions to the contrary, this thread is not about you and your frikin Ferrari's! , it's about George and being happy for him and this sword which is a beautiful blade no matter what all the judges, paperwork and polish might eventually reveal.

[Promo]

Hello BobI,

thanks for the permission. This is what you had sent me via PM:

Hi!
I am curious, are you going to sell that sword?
Thanks!
Bob

And this is what you wrote on the thread, after I had written on the thread in public that I will not be selling the blade, neither to you nor to others:

Sorry if I and others have offered to buy it, it is a cool blade. However, that is all it is. If you have it polished it will not be worth what it cost to get it polished. It is a curiosity and nothing more in the Japanese sword world. The signature is fake, I am 98% sure of that, not sure if there are any flaws, that is super important to know too.
Bob

As well as in another post:

Do as you like with the sword but even if it is gemei which I am 99.9% sure it is, get advice from experienced people.

What do you think is my impression from you as a dealer by getting asked if I would sell something to you, but in public you write you are 98% or 99.9% sure it is a fake/gimei after I had in public written that I will not be selling it? Now, after I had exported it to Japan through someone who only deals with Nihonto I get two confirmations from the highest ranked person as well as THE institution on Nihonto are saying that it is original.

Additionally you have mentioned on this thread that you never gamble, but you would pay $ 1000 to Kevin if my blade is original. Reminded of that you now argue that Kevin didn't took the bet and therefore you will not pay him $ 1000. And you end your last post with that:

This is causing me too much stress, I am going to take my Ferrari and figure out which car to add to that collection. Cars and swords are in the toilet, great time to buy!

This makes me now wonder how, or maybe I should say WHO, you got to pay for your Ferarri. For anyone else reading this I can only recommend to not trust in anything you are claiming in here and better not sell anything to you.


Basically I was looking for information on my blade. It is much of a pity that my thread in here now has several pages full of discussions non-related to the topic. I would kindly request any moderator to do not close or even delete within this thread since much of the content in here is an important future reference for anyone dealing with BobI. On the counterpart I can only offer that this will be my last direct reply to BobI in public and my next post in here will include an update on what the current status of my blade is - hopefully soon and hopefully that it is in stone mint perfectly polished condition and just made the first papers and on the way to the next level. Thanks for all those who follow this thread and especially one out to those who encouraged me to ignore the negative feedback!

[BobI]

Yup, yup, Promo!
Yea, suggesting you get advice from experienced people is a serious problem. I think you read into things too much. A bit delusional too, delusional meaning misinterpretation of real stimuli. After looking over your posts it seems pretty obvious English is not your first language, are you using a translator? If you speak English, how well? Did you only learn in school or did you spend an extended period of time in the US? I offer to buy a lot of stuff, now I keep the majority of what I buy since this is not my business anymore, just a hobby. Oh, and I think you commented on the expensive NCO swords I have. I sold two which the buyers were grateful I sold them, they are unobtainable.

I probably over did it on the Ferrari, your right Ben. But, this was all advice on my experience. Oh, and no, I don't make money on this crap anymore. Its always nice to have multiple diversified businesses in this world that work off different parts of the economy. Military has not been viable since 2008, Japanese "Art Swords" died in 92ish.

Anyway, you need to re-read everything with someone who understand English better and read every post I have made.

Bob

[N.C. Wyeth]

Good God, Bob - you are really doing a magnificent job of showing everyone how much of a "wiggly" one you are . . .

Can't you read? Just leave the guy alone - until he has the response he is waiting for. It's almost like you have something to hide - or are feeling guilty for. Just let it go