Help on Japanese Sword

[BruceP]

Promo,

You have quite a unique and beautiful sword there!! Find of a Lifetime at 100 Euros!!!

I don't know where you live, but here in the States, there are regular meetings of evaluation groups called "Shinsa", run by people involved in NBTHK. You can google for the next Shinsa meeting in your country. Here's a link to one coming in April in Chicago: http://ejapaneseswords.com/Shinsa_Info.html

It could cost around $275 USD to have a blade evaluated (if memory serves me), so depending upon your budget, it's not free/cheap; but if this were my blade, I'd pay to have it evaluated.

[BobI]

Sorry if I and others have offered to buy it, it is a cool blade. However, that is all it is. If you have it polished it will not be worth what it cost to get it polished. It is a curiosity and nothing more in the Japanese sword world. The signature is fake, I am 98% sure of that, not sure if there are any flaws, that is super important to know too.
Bob

[Promo]

Bob, it was not only you. But from collecting firearms and having learnt on how to write scientifically funded articles and books I‘m also a bit fed up by those who (reduced to the main message) post „nice fake“ and at the same time send a PM asking if it was for sale. Several friends of mine were factually “robbed“ this way by others. I‘m not saying that you are, but your acting does not put you in good light here and I hope you understand this.

As I had said, I currently do not have any plans to part with it. If it was nothing original I will be keeping it as a nice wall hanger since then there is also no reason on why to part with it. My goal and the reason why I‘m posting here is to find out what it really is and I appreciate the effort that some have put into giving me information much, really looking deep into detail (while I still need to research quite a lot of the terms named, I need to admit). I think it deserves being looked at in great detail, and if there is a slight chance that it is something good, I‘ll have looked into it.

So generally the consent is that I will need to have it evaluated by experts on those. I‘ve already sent an e-Mail to the European NBTHK, hope they might be able to help me more. All I will do in the meantime is to wipe a bit more oil down the blade with clothing and see if I get more dirt disappear, but for sure not polish anything to avoid damages. This still can be done afterwards.

[Beater]

Promo,

You have quite a unique and beautiful sword there!! Find of a Lifetime at 100 Euros!!!

I don't know where you live, but here in the States, there are regular meetings of evaluation groups called "Shinsa", run by people involved in NBTHK. You can google for the next Shinsa meeting in your country. Here's a link to one coming in April in Chicago: http://ejapaneseswords.com/Shinsa_Info.html

It could cost around $275 USD to have a blade evaluated (if memory serves me), so depending upon your budget, it's not free/cheap; but if this were my blade, I'd pay to have it evaluated.

Are they coming back to the U.K. Bruce? I’d like to ask them about the mistake they made with my Shodai Masahiro! That’s another story though.

[Beater]

If you have it polished it will not be worth what it cost to get it polished. It is a curiosity and nothing more in the Japanese sword world. The signature is fake, I am 98% sure of that

With respect it is impossible to say what it will be worth after polish at this stage. A successful polish would enhance its current value and could be done for around £500 in U.K. He got it for 100 Euros, so in polish you are not telling me he couldn’t get £600!
You might think it’s a curio, I think it’s a proper Nihonto, even if it turns out to be gimei, unlike those 4,000 dollar + NCO sword you see for sale. Of course, they are rare you’ll say. So is this. Unique.
Now the big one Bob. 98% is pretty convincing. I’ve looked at a few genuine Kiyomaro mei and had a Japanese speaker make the comparisons - Jury’s still out. So tell us why you are so certain and increase all our knowledge please, otherwise your comments do just look like sour grapes.

Regards,

Kevin

[GHP]

Promo, please do not do anything more to the tang as the older black “rust” is important to maintaining the health of the underlying soft steel, and it helps experts to date the blade. Please wipe off any remaining oil residue and keep it dry.

I am envious of your score and wish you well — It is a nice blade with an interesting shape.

Cheers,
—Guy

[nickn]

This is the pm I sent
That’s a very nice looking blade
Please read my post and I suggest getting it looked at or send the Mei photos to an expert
Are you in the us?
Nick
If in the us or the uk I would have suggested a few people you could have shown it to
From the photos of the Mei it’s not a genuine kiyomaro

[BobI]

Promo,
Actually, I totally understand where you are coming from and I can respect that. When you are comfortable you have researched this to the fullest I would be interested in buying it.
For now, you have removed all of the red rust, I would just leave it alone now. If you do want any advice I am happy to help.
500 BP polish, this is certain to ruin and not enhance the value of a Japanese sword. A real polisher understands the minute details of smiths, schools and more. This is called "Kantie" (spelling?). There are several qualified polishers in Japan, a few in the US and many who will make it shiny but understand far less on Nihonto. There are no "real" polishes that are done for this price, that is absolutely certain!!!
Ben, I know you have fooled around cleaning swords and done on certain swords I think that is great! There are other swords that need trained professionals.
Do as you like with the sword but even if it is gemei which I am 99.9% sure it is, get advice from experienced people. I would only trust a NTHK/NBTHK kantie and that is still iffy but the best you are going to get.
Best Wishes,
Bob

[nickn]

Kevin
Compare the Mei to known papered originals it’s Gemei
But does it matter ?
Nice sword that deserves a polish
I hate the way money comes into sword restoration I have had lots of swords polished where the polish didn’t add monetary value

[BobI]

Kevin
Compare the Mei to known papered originals it’s Gemei
But does it matter ?
Nice sword that deserves a polish
I hate the way money comes into seord restoration I have had lots of swords polished where the polish didn’t add monetary value

I totally agree and this is how I have swords polished now and not for resale. Most people do have to consider if it will add value to a sword, this sword would be more expensive to polish then normal. You know, for a qualified polisher it will depend on length, and complexity of the construction, you might be able to use the habaki and the rest will need to be replaced. In qualified hands we are looking at 3,4,5 thousand dollars at a guess. It was made as a copy of a Nagamaki that was cut down, that is where the "naoshi" comes from and then machied up at one point. Probably about 27" now and just cool, I love blades like this! But talking strictly dollars, once you are comfortable what it is sell it untouched. Especially from a polisher who charges what was proposed earlier, that will absolutely ruin this!!
Bob
PS- Nick always speaks of reason and knowledge and GHP is an incredible resource on this site. Thanks Guys

[BenVK]

Ben, I know you have fooled around cleaning swords and done on certain swords I think that is great! There are other swords that need trained professionals.

Hi Bob, I think you missunderstood.
Kevin was not referring to me when he wrote about a polisher in the UK.
Just wanted to clear that up because I would never suggest letting an amateur like myself work on a blade like this. It absolutely has to be done by a professional and you need to be careful who you choose. Not that long ago, several members of the nihonto forum sent swords off to Japan to be polished and the results were not satisfactory.

[Beater]

Hi Bob, I think you missunderstood.
Kevin was not referring to me when he wrote about a polisher in the UK.
Just wanted to clear that up because I would never suggest letting an amateur like myself work on a blade like this. It absolutely has to be done by a professional and you need to be careful who you choose. Not that long ago, several members of the nihonto forum sent swords off to Japan to be polished and the results were not satisfactory.

Thank you Ben for correcting that inaccurate assumption. I can't be bothered to address the others. It's only a curio and I'm the only one in the debate who wasn't trying to buy it.
Others reading this will also know my thoughts about authenticity and whether I've done any comparisons. How crass. At least I can spell gimei and kantei.

[Beater]

Kevin
Compare the Mei to known papered originals it’s Gemei
But does it matter ?
Nice sword that deserves a polish

Nick,

Read my previous post #17.

I believe it does matter - it matters a small fortune.

The only difference between you, Bob and I is that you assert (gimei) with certainty and Bob is now at 99%, I prefer to leave the door open for the real experts, which none of us is.

So would you spend $3 to 5k as has been suggested or might you also consider an option nearer home? We have the advantage of knowing who and what we are talking about. I, as you know, always say in respect of polishing, horses for courses and this is, after all, only a curiosity.

Regards,

Kevin.

[nickn]

I meant it doesn’t matter it’s gimei it’s a nice looking blade
Not sure I would give it to our Cheshire friend I have another polisher in mind
If it was genuine it would be worth an awful lot I was offered $250,000 if my nodachi passed shinsa

[BobI]

Ben,
I have great respect for you, I worded that the way I did because I know you know your limits. I wish I had your abilities but sadly, I do not.
Best Wishes,
Bob
PS- There is a ton of unethical practices from the NTHK and NBTHK over the years, a book could be written on that! Same on polishers, you really have to figure out the "right" guys and then even more so the right guy for the right sword. It gets political the higher up you go.