nco fair estand price

[nickn]

Well one member believes it's real
Just been offered $375!!

[gunto]

The bohi dosnt have the proper length. This is also a classic fake issue.
The marks on the fuchi is to far from eachother.
The seppa near fuchi is to large and dosnt have the normal notch for the lock clip.
The marks does look cast.

The orginal ncos are not poorly made ,even the later ones has a quality over them.
The tsuka looks poorly made , I want to see the little dots simulating same .

Imo ,,the meantioned sword in the thread has all the fake issues.

Prove me wrong , with photos of the kissaki, closeup of tsuka. The mekugi and sarute screws.

[ROBB]

It looks like this one which has sold .
http://www.johnnyg.westhost.com/sj157cx.html

[gunto]

It looks like this one which has sold .
http://www.johnnyg.westhost.com/sj157cx.html

Thats how it shall look like. Look at all the details and the quality , the one we talk about dosnt come close.

[BruceP]

Did we lose some pics? Where's the one showing the seppa disassembled?

Gunto: I agree I've never seen a rounded bottom in the opening of the kuchi-gane. I've checked several sources for examples of bohi length and the ones depicted (which are few) have bohi running all the way to the yokote. The missing arsenal stamp next ot the serial number doesn't bother me as both Fuller and Dawson mention very faint nagoya stamps. Dawson speculates that Nagoya waited until after tempering to stamp blades. Numbers - agreed they are different style than all I've seen. The drag is not the normal Nagoya drag - it looks more like the Kokura style.

Overall i'd say the quality seems as good as the real thing, if it's an imitation. "Jury is still out" if it were mine.

[STEGEL]

All you guys should be familiar with Nick Komiya's articles, you can see how thorough the Military was in its requirements and standards. There were reasons for acceptance stamps i.e Quality control

I'm not sure how the jury could be out still, it would be case closed IMO.
The sword originally posted is hugely inferior in quality.

The Earliest Gifu manufactured swords appear at the 18k serial range and have completely different handle moulds to the other 2 sub contractors. It's possible it could be a later field replacement but looking at the handle, i don't think it is genuine at all. The nodules of 'SAME'on the handle are normally white, these have traces of brown?? Better pictures would confirm, but, i do not see the detail that should be there.

I thought the guard could have been genuine, but ow agree that it is 'not'standard to the earlier 11mm type or the 9mm type, the profile also differs.

The red flag of the scabbard throat should have convinced every one. There is no way that this quality would have been accepted.

Fakes of this type have been around since the 70's from what i remember, they originated in India and Pakistan, they were of slighty better buid quality than the chinese fakes that followed.
I believe this to be one of them.

[Stu W]

Hi Guys,

I'll keep it short ... I believe this sword to be a reproduction.

Regards,
Stu

[Stu W]

I'll also take this opportunity to repeat something I've said before and that is the reference books by Fuller and Gregory are now dated and much has been learned about gunto since they were printed. It's best their opinions be viewed in the context of what is now known rather than taken as fact as they once were.

Regards,
Stu

[nickn]

Red flag of the scabbard throat
It would have been painted so the braze would not have been seen?
From the 70's would explain the natural rust ageing on the scabbard

[BruceP]

Nick, no he's talking about the shape of the opening. The bottom should be flat like this one:

[RussellM]

The 2 pics in post 3 are enough to conclude it's a reproduction, most of the reasons have already been given.

Robb, it is most definitely not like the one shown in your link!

Regards

Russ

[nickn]

So apart from the blade ,scabbard ,tsuba ,fuchi ,Tsuka and arsenal stamp the sword is fine

[BruceP]

Your're a good man, Nick!

Maybe $375-500 is a good range, after all. I have an "officer" gunto that I bought at the beginning of my collecting for $400, to use the parts to refurbish my dad's Mantetsu gunto scabbard. Turned out the workmanship was so poor I couldn't stand to put the pieces on my dad's saya! Your sword is WAY nicer than the one I got stuck with!

Since none of us were there when this was made, what you have here is opinion - some really experienced and learned opinion - but educated observations. Take it and use it as you please. If I were selling this, I'd say "Appears to be WWII NCO Gunto", which is a true statement!

[Stu W]

So apart from the blade ,scabbard ,tsuba ,fuchi ,Tsuka and arsenal stamp the sword is fine

Yes, but don't let it go too cheaply, after all it's a 100% authentic reproduction.

Cheers,
Stu

[gunto]

Yes, but don't let it go too cheaply, after all it's a 100% authentic reproduction.

Cheers,
Stu