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**streptile** · 06-02-2015, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by kid74 View Post

In this case, you are sure to cross from AWES awarded?
WR Kirill

I am sure they are also duplicates and I have never suggested they were awarded.

**kid74** · 06-02-2015, 07:02 PM

.... for a change&

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scan St&L 1870 k.jpg (117.8 KB, 71 views)

**gregM** · 06-02-2015, 07:02 PM

I think we are getting into a language thing here.

We went through this discussion some time ago with the
meaning of the word "copy".

Trevor is using "Copy" as to mean "Duplicate or replacement"

Where as some see the word "copy" meaning "fake"

**kid74** · 06-02-2015, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by streptile View Post

I am sure they are also duplicates and I have never suggested they were awarded.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=432319

Here the cross from AWES you call wonderful.
And here the cross from St&L you call a souvenir.
Perhaps I misunderstood initially?

I believe that both the cross was not made for official awards. But to call them Souvenirs, probably not entirely appropriate.

WR Kirill

**kid74** · 06-02-2015, 07:13 PM

... otherwise, all the crosses LDO (1939) are souvenirs.

WR Kirill

**streptile** · 06-02-2015, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by kid74 View Post

Perhaps I misunderstood?

Originally posted by gregM View Post

I think we are getting into a language thing here.

Yes indeed.

I believe the "S&L" and AWS crosses are legitimate, period replacement crosses, i.e. copies. I have stated this here and on other forums many, many times and supported it with photos of these types on bars. I also (once) speculated that some of the very low quality "S&L" types may have been sold as souvenirs, and I think that is not possible to refute at this moment.

**kid74** · 06-02-2015, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by streptile View Post

Yes indeed.

I believe the "S&L" and AWS crosses are legitimate, period replacement crosses, i.e. copies. I have stated this here and on other forums many, many times and supported it with photos of these types on bars. I also (once) speculated that some of the very low quality "S&L" types may have been sold as souvenirs, and I think that is not possible to refute at this moment.

Well, I understand you.

..... now I can go to sleep peacefully

WR Kirill

**Montgomery Burns** · 06-03-2015, 06:34 AM

reminding everyone here on a few contra"s ,,

AWS crosses 1870 found around 1895,1900 period pictures .
therefor legitimate period 1895/1900 crosses

these big hump crosses 1870 are not found on period pictures ,
therefor missing a vital legitimation as period (or in any period) .

the catalog picture ( painting of the Iron cross ) is giving no period legitimation because :

1: the display is not resembling the iron core design on the cross shown as tread starter .

2: also not resembling the frame,, except on 1 point , the big hump.

A question mark exceptional is :
the fact that all other medals on the advertisement catalog are a identical displays of the real medals..

I would expect the iron cross display also to be identical to the real Iron crosses . (sadly not so )

A question mark exceptional also :
the right painting on the region of the attachment ring/hump ,,,overlaying of some kind ,,I cal it .

My conclusion is ..

Declaring the thread starting cross a S&L production throe this catalog is highly debatable,,,,thin ice so to speak

I would advice
before declaring the tread starter S&L ,,more evidence should be collected.

And I have seriously doubts for the advertisement shown here.

regards kay

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