Did S&L make PLMs in the 1920s or 1930s?

[Zepenthusiast]

For comparison, a classic S&L recently posted by WAF member Veles on the '57 forum (hope OK with him if re-posted here)--more central location of F and spacing above M highlighted:





vs Silver FR from MedalNet, entire F shifted more to the left of center and the top of the M closer to the cross edge:




(Note that in the S&L example, the cross is actually tilted a bit, which if anything would make the M appear closer to the edge than it actually is. Were the FR tilted to the same degree, it would very nicely match the cross in the display.)

[Brian S]

Makes the most sense to me.

[Leroy]

This is a very interesting comparison and it may assist in figuring out some S&L practices.

The trade show in Leipzig coincided with the introduction of the LDO. At the same time, according to all indications, S&L published its last wartime catalog. The catalog does not mention the PLM or Grand Cross, yet they are both displayed at the exhibition, and we know that, at some time, S&L produced its own versions of both. Some of us believe, because of the quality observed on some pieces, that S&L began producing those things during the war, while others think it was postwar.

Interestingly, that last S&L catalog does advertise several KM badges, as well as the Oakleaves to the RK, for sale. The catalog illustrations for those pieces, however, are not of the pieces actually manufactured by S&L. The Oakleaves illustration is of a Juncker set, while the KM badges are by Schwerin. In both cases, the designs actually adopted and manufactured by S&L were very similar to the designs in the illustrations. (In the case of the Oakleaves, close enough to have fooled multiple writers in the field until "outed" by me in an article published by Dietrich in his IMC magazine in Spring, 2012.) S&L was a "wholesaler to the trade", not the general public.

I believe we are seeing a practice by S&L of "borrowing" from other manufacturers to illustrate pieces it was in the process of adding to its "lineup" (or already had and was too cheap to pay for new illustrations of its own). In the case of catalog illustrations, they certainly would have been needed for layout and design purposes some period of time before the catalog was actually published. It may be that the products themselves in some (even if not all) cases, were finished by the time the catalog was actually distributed (and the Leipzig trade show held). This is, of course, speculation, but well-founded IMO.

Can any of our KM experts tell if the U-Boat, Minesweeper and Destroyer badges to the right of the RK in the first display window shown below are by Schwerin or S&L? (By the way, note the ads for Dr. Doehle's book on the shelf below.)

[streptile]

Thanks to you all for the interesting observations and information.

I don't think that the photo shows enough resolution on the PLM to say definitively that the u and r are unconnected with thin horizontal lines, personally. But it certainly doesn't show definitively that they are, either.

Gentry, just a quick yes or no question: do you believe S&L made the 1939 Grand Cross during the war?

[Leroy]

Gentry, just a quick yes or no question: do you believe S&L made the 1939 Grand Cross during the war?

I think it did, based on examples I have seen, but I have no way to prove it, so it's just my opinion.

[streptile]

Thank you Gentry.

[Alex W.]

...bringing an old thread back from the dead..

This is a S&L PLM that IMO is the identical style that was on display at the Leipzig trade show at the S&L exhibition in March of 1941.

What may look like a regular S&L made PLM, is indeed a rare one made of 800 silver. What makes this one even more unique, is that all details of the eagles are intact and the eagles wings and feet are correctly sawn out. This is something that I have not seen on any postwar S&L made PLM - silver or bronze.
There is an overall difference in quality, that becomes much more obvious when comparing this PLM to other S&L made pieces next to each other.
In fact, my other 800 silver PLM looks rather poor against this one. The way the eagles are cut out - shape of the wings and legs, the gilding, the lettering, the blue enameling is lighter in color... everything about it looks like it was made in a different manufacturing period. In comparison to six other PLM's in front of me, I'm convinced that this in fact must be a S&L PLM made in the 1920's-1940's.... the same ones
It's overall finish just doesn't match other enameled decorations of the postwar period.
The last pic is a comparison next to another 800 silver made S&L PLM.

Best regards,
Alex

[streptile]

This is a S&L PLM that IMO is the identical style that was on display at the Leipzig trade show at the S&L exhibition in March of 1941.

Truly a great piece.

I agree that S&L made PLMs during WWII, and I also agree that they can be differentiated from postwar pieces primarily by the quality of the manufacture. I have had one (or two) that I am convinced were wartime manufacture, although never one quite as nice as that one.

In my opinion the bronze-gilt wartime PLMs also had excellent enamel and finishing. The manufacturing and finishing techniques of these early pieces is perfectly consistent with wartime work on (for example) later wartime bronze-gilt and enameled orders like the German Eagle Order.

As you move into the postwar period, the enamel work becomes sloppier and the finishing - especially around the baroque loop -- becomes haphazard.

Congratulations on a very fine PLM.

[Brian S]

nice details. Not typical s&l as you say.

[gmu]

Hi, I share again this one I have. 800 silver marked .

Compare to the one posted by Alex W

[Zepenthusiast]

Really beautiful PlM--and impressive to see such attention to the detail and finish! Seems we still lack photographic evidence of one in wear pre-1945, though?