Did S&L make PLMs in the 1920s or 1930s?

[streptile]

Not much to add to the thread title.

I feel like this question has been lurking under the surface of some S&L PLM discussions over the past years.

Does anyone believe that S&L made PLMs prior to 1945?

Does anyone have real proof that they did not, and can put this question to rest?

I'm just curious as I saw an S&L-type PLM, totally unmarked, with such fine workmanship, enamel and detail that I found myself doubting that it was made after WWII.

Thanks to anyone who adds to this discussion.

[Don D.]

I believe there is a pic of an S&L wartime display that includes a PLM. Whether they made it or not is anyone's guess. I think if they made them right after the war they probably had access to craftsmen that could do credible work. Now, not so much.

[Leroy]

I personally believe that they made almost everything. Here's their exhibition at the Leipzig trade show in March, 1941.

[streptile]

Thanks for the interesting information and the photo Leroy.

I bought my first S&L PLM at the most recent MAX show thanks to a fellow WAF member, and I saw three more, including one that left me wondering if it could have been a wartime copy.

It doesn't strike me as impossible that S&L made them during WWII, and with their joined u and r and semi-cutout eagles, they should be identifiable in superior, high-res photos. I wonder if anyone can find one?

[Jesse]

I never get tired of seeing that and the other photos in that series.
Until we see cast iron proof, it's just conjecture, but to me logic dictates that they did manufacture them interwar - at least in the 1930's.
I know a lot of people are not so keen on them but mine is an important part of my collection.

Jesse

[Brian S]

Goring had a Wagner but during WWII had another? What's he wearing, S&L? I've seen various responses over the years.

[streptile]

Göring is definitely shown in some other photos wearing a different type of PLM but it's got a pie-wedge suspension on it and is certainly a typical J. Godet design. I'm not sure if this is the one you were referring to:





The problem with the S&L types is that the design is so close to the Wagner/Friedländer that it might be hard to distinguish in photos, except in really high-res ones.

[Brian S]

OK, right, but do you have a closer view of that S&L doggie in the window? What's the shape of that one? Entirely possible it's a Godet? Wagner?

"nur für die Anzeige"

[streptile]

Hey Brian,

Here's that PLM:



Could be a Wagner/Friedländer, could be an S&L.

[Brian S]

Trevor, get a closer up to that window and sharpen your focus please. Use your way back machine.

[streptile]

I wish...

[ccj]

I would think it very likely S&L made PlM before the end of WW2 and most likely in the 30's
I just seems to make since that they would have...

[Don D.]

The U & R are not connected.

[Leroy]

Here's an article on the tradeshow.

[Zepenthusiast]

Inverting the color and upping the contrast a bit shows the F to be left-shifted substantially from center (the bottom serif nearly in contact with the cross edge, at this angle) and the top of the M to approach closely to the edge of the enamel as well, both features of a solid silver Wagner, but not seen with the S&L. The mass of the eagles is more in keeping with a Wagner design, too.