Show Your Imperial U-boat Badges

[Don D.]

Gotta love that Juncker!

[Tim B.]

Gotta love that Juncker!

Hi Don,

Yes, it's a real beauty and NOW, I can't believe I passed on it back then, but who knows, I probably would have got nothing more than "sorry sold" from Detlev. At least I am happy with the 1st pattern Schwerin E-boat I did get that day.

I would really like to see this one close-up though, as there remains a question concerning the Juncker vs Schott badge and who actually produced the Schott badges.

I know Gordon Williamson feels strongly that Juncker produced the Schott badges, as Walter Schott was simply a sculptur and the designer of the badge design, so his (designer's) name was put on the badge. However, I have not seen any real reference proving that Juncker was in fact the manufacturer. So, did Juncker get the initial contract on these badges or what? Not sure if there are any period Juncker catalogs or ???

I had asked Gordon this question sometime ago, as I see that "connection" briefly discussed in his book "Torpedo Los" and he said it was pretty common knowledge and generally accepted now. When asked about a reference, he gave me this link: Imperial era - cejuncker.com home page

I contacted this Matt at what sounds like an official website to see if he had any past affiliation with Juncker (they closed in the mid-60's) or if he was related to the family in any way and he said no, just another collector that likes to study Juncker items. When pressed on references to connect Jucnker to the Schott badge, he told a good reference was Gordon's "Torpedo Los". So, you see the problem here, you can't have both referencing each other as the "source" and no actual hard evidence type reference. I discussed this with Matt via emails and he stated he was away from his references and would get back to me but, never did. Maybe he simply forgot but...?

Anyway, I would like to see some hard evidence supporting the claim that Schott badges are in fact Juncker produced.
Tim

[Don D.]

Sooner or later the proof one way or another will appear.

[Tim B.]

Yea, I know what you're saying; I see revelations coming every year in one area or the other, but it will be curious to see if this one pans out. A good period reference would be the tell-all.

Here's a comparison I did before of the Schott & Juncker badge and you can see the die characteristics are very different between the two.
Tim

[Diesel]

Hello

I have had these two for some times.

1






2





Regards
Diesel

[Tim B.]

Hi Diesel,

Well, the second badge is classic Schott. Very nice condition despite the repair to the catch.

I can't say I am too confident with the first badge you show however and feel the trademark characteristics of the Schott design are not there. Keep in mind, these Schott badges were the most copied of WWI U-boat badges.

If you look closely at the PIC below, you will see very similar traits to the S&L style badge which served as the model for the one you have.

Tim

[Tim B.]

No more U-boat collectors out there?
Tim

[T.Pasqueralle]

Badge

A friend just sent this to me along with some other imperial items these are badges I don't know much about so i figure I will post it for you guys to have a look

[Dave-B]

Here's a Schott I used to own...

[T.Pasqueralle]

badge

Is is safe to say that the one I posted is a good one?

[Tim B.]

Is is safe to say that the one I posted is a good one?

Hi Tom,

Well, I do see some traits in the badge you posted that I like, and some I don't. Keep in mind that we do see a variety somewhat in hardware on original Schott marked badges. Trying to look in my files for original Schott badges with this small hinge, so far I can't find one.

With that said, I would like a clear closeup of the makers mark and I do not see any striations or scratches on the reverse. These "scratches" are from a wheel that the finisher used to "polish" the reverse in the manufacturing process and is standard on original Schott pieces.

So, at this point, I personally would like to see more PIC's of the reverse before giving a conclusive opinion either way.
Tim

[Tim B.]

Dave,

The traits look solid Schott, but the finish and some of the small surface marks make me wonder if it might have been a cast of an original badge.

You had it in hand, what do you remember of it?

I made some notes on some enhanced PIC's (below) of your badge so you could see what I am looking at and what would concern me about it. Hopefully more will chime in on it as well.

Tim

[Tim B.]

Been awhile and thought I would bump this thread back up.

I saw this badge sold today and wanted to ask what others thought of it. I personally think the strike quality is questionable. Cast of an original? The hardware certainly looks added or replaced.

Tim

[Tim B.]

A little closer, sorry.

[Tim B.]

Here's the maker's mark.

I understand we are going to see small imperfections when enlarging these items to this size that might not be normally noticeable in hand, so it might be okay.

When compared to another badge though, the details look very weak to me. Thoughts?

Tim