A Study of the Godet Style PlM

[Tiger 1]

Steve,

I think that the 'bubbling' on the eagles's wing feathers are a intentional pebbled texture feature when originally made. My PLM's eagle feathers have the same surface treatment.

Maybe someone can drag the pics to this thread for comparison.

Tony

[regular122]

Might be Tony. I will show a side by side with the Meybauer eagles for comparison. As to yours, are you talking the piece you recently posted with the mysterious 'W' or a different PlM? Be happy to drag them here for comparison if you link the thread or PM. Thanks as always, Steve

[Biro]

...I think that the 'bubbling' on the eagles's wing feathers are an intentional 'pebbled texture' feature when originally made...

This is correct and is a feature of WW1 Godet eagles.

Marshall

photo courtesy S Previtera - Prussian Blue. Buy it!!

[Tiger 1]

Might be Tony. I will show a side by side with the Meybauer eagles for comparison. As to yours, are you talking the piece you recently posted with the mysterious 'W' or a different PlM? Be happy to drag them here for comparison if you link the thread or PM. Thanks as always, Steve

That's the one Steve.

Tony

[regular122]

Tony, Marshall, Paul,

I've put together some eagle comparisons of Paul's eagle with Marshall's fine example, my Meybauer and Tony's unknown Godet style eagle.

Here is Marshall's eagle with Paul's bronze gilt one. Clearly from the same mold / die. But note the fine imprint of the eagle on the left and then a few odd out of place bubble's on the bronze-gilt on the right. Maybe just a variation vice a cast. Clearly the same eagle though.

[regular122]

Now here is my Meybauer Bronze-gilt with Paul's Godet Bronze-gilt. Again, clearly the same eagle although note the absence of what appears to be bubbling on the details on the eagle on the left but present on the right. Don't really know but that is what made me say the comments about a possible cast piece for the double-sided Godet that Paul showed. But whether it is or not, I believe it is clearly an authentic Godet 1920s-1930s post WWI example but prior to 1945. And to date, the only double-sided Bronze-Gilt Godet we have seen in the forum.

[regular122]

And Tony,

Here is one showing all four examples, including your unknown Godet style piece. There are many differences with your example but it still displays a fine hand workmanship. I have some other opinions on your piece but will comment on your thread. Steve

[regular122]

Concerning wartime purchased Godets and post-war purchased Godets, I now have pictures of an example of both that belonged to the same man - Fritz Wulff.

Fritz Wulff was a Captain on duty when the German Army mobilized in 1914 and became an incredibly brave and highly decorated junior officer that rose in ability. Five times wounded and a veteran of the Somme, Wulff was a Major commanding a battalion near Siosson in June 1918 when his actions leading a counterattack in the Chemin des Dames earned him a nomination for the Pour le Merite. It was at the heights in Montrebeau in late September and early October 1918 when this officer once again came to the attention of the high command and his name was forwarded again for the PlM, this time by Generalleutnant von Kleist. Three days later, on October 8th, 1918, Wulff was informed that he had indeed been awarded the PlM.

The date and circumstances of his awarding are not known. With the German Army in its death throws for the remaining month in the war, Wulff may have never been awarded a silver-gilt Wagner. But it is known he acquired a silver-gilt Godet.

After the war, Wullf, like so many PlM recipients, rallied former troops against the communists in the regions where they lived. Now a police commander in Essen, Wulff was instrumental in putting down the 'Kapp Putsch' in 1920. It was during these actions that his wartime acquired Godet became chipped.

His family stated that he acquired the second Godet shortly thereafter. What makes this important is that we now have a named example on record where a second award replaced the damaged first. The second post-war award is marked 'JGuS' and '938' on the pie wedge.

Below are the decorations of Fritz Wulff and also a detail of his two Godets. A very special thanks to the individual who provided these pictures for use. Steve

[regular122]

The top Pour le Merite is Fritz Wulff's late wartime acquired Godet.

Specifications
Width - 52.12mm
Height - 54.04mm
Marks - 'JGuS' and '938' on the pie wedge rim
Chipped enamel on reverse
Weight - 32.8 g

The bottom Pour le Merite is Fritz Wulff's replacement Godet acquired in the early 1920s.

Specifications
Width - 53.47mm
Height - 54.64mm
Marks - 'JGuS' and '938' on the pie wedge rim
Weight - 22.24 g Silver-Gilt Hollow
Remarks - Eagle tail feathers are more streamline and long, similar to type known later as Schickle.

This second post-war award is a much nicer hollow marked version than his wartime Godet.

I am sure this will generate some discussion. Steve

[Biro]

....I am sure this will generate some discussion. Steve

I don't find the fact that Wulff may have had a replacement piece at all contentious - except for the fact that the chip to the reverse (eg. unseen) side of his original PLM I would hardly class as catastrophic damage!

The piece you've posted as his 'replacement piece' does not have the wide centre so often seen in conjunction with the straight (e.g. featherless) tail feathers and loosely linked to both Godet and the Schickle catalogue example. If this replacement piece above is in fact a Godet product (and the maker mark and charateristics would indicate that is so) the implication is that Godets die evolved over three different versions.. the wartime examples, Wulff's example above from the 1920's with small centre and straight tail feathers and a third - the wide centre, straight tail feather version.

I think the real talking point remains when did Godet change (or rework) its PLM die and more importantly - why?? so soon after wars end, when really - from the pictorial evidence of wartime examples I have seen - there is nothing to indicate the die was failing and their tooling was known to have survived the war intact?

Perhaps Frau Kleittman has a theory...?

As an aside - when Detlev originally sold this grouping, I saved it and I don't recall any mention - or picture - of the wartime PLM now included in the grouping. I saved the picture simply because it was described as a '1916 hollow Godet' with provenance to Wulff - and yet it had the straight tail feathers. Which is odd.

I'm casting ABSOLUTELY no aspersions - (I don't by any stretch know the full story surrounding the aquisition of this grouping) but I think before we can tag provenance to it, we would need to know a little more from the owner about how the genuine wartime and the hollow replacement came to be paired together when as far as I am aware, they were not sold together. The example on the ribbon in the original sales picture below is the same example pictured above it without the loop and ribbon and both are the postwar replacement version.

By the way - I disagree entirely with you on one point.. the wartime piece is beautifully crafted and designed - the clunky hollow replacement is but a shadow!!!!...

Cheers

Marshall

[regular122]

Great comments Marshall. While the owner has not made specific the details of the second acquisition, the material he provided does show it was acquired from the family at a later date. My understanding is he has a second ribbon set, I just did not have a picture of it.

My own theory on the straight feathers is that they had time for the workmanship. The post war piece being hollow, and therefore more delicate, perhaps had the applied eagles worked with a little more flair. Conjecture totally, but these eagles are clearly Godet, as is every other characteristic of the cross. The cross itself is identical to every other 1916-1918 Godet, to include the narrow waist. It might have been left over from stock?

If not left over, what is striking to me is that the markings are intact on a post war piece. This provides some important transitional information for us on the post war evolution and eventual decline of the Godets. Steve

[regular122]

With a possible new example of a Schickle PlM surfacing in another thread, I wanted to include it here with the others and pertinent data. Special thanks to forum member Leroy for permission to show his fine example in this thread.

Specifications
Width - 54.01 mm
Arm width: 22.63 mm
Height - 55.28 mm - from bottom arm edge to top of "pie"
Marks - none. Ring marked with unidentifiable single mark
Weight - 20.44 g Silver-Gilt Hollow
Remarks - "Weep" holes on each arm hidden beneath eagle's wing

More can be found on this specific example HERE.

Steve

[Leroy]

Honored to have this piece shown here in such distinguished company!

One small point regarding the mark on the loop (which really does not photograph well). In hand, and under magnification, the mark is clearly a cross pattée in shape. I have no idea whatsoever, as I am a complete novice here, whether this has any significance.

Regards,
Leroy

[regular122]

Well Leroy, it actually might. Below is the logo of Otto Schickle's company (photo credit - Gordon Williamson). I don't know if there are any similarities or not to it but if you could put a magnifying glass in front of a digital camera lens, you might be able to get close enough to it to see. Steve

[regular122]

Here is the supplemental page listing their PlM from the same catalog. Steve