Bavarian pilot´s badge by Poellath

[Eric Stahlhut]

Check out the paper tag!

Nice, huh?

[Rick Research]

Thanks Eric! In the absence of another Pö/oellath Pilots Badge, let's continue with OTHER products of this company.

With my Semi Amazing Super Powers I can "clip" these out into a separate "Pö/oellath Marks" thread later as info piles up.

Unfortunately, we're still in the dark about WHEN the regimental/association badges were made, absent dates in the design. As a general impression, I think post-WW1 badges of this type tend to be pinback, while pre-war ones favored ugly ribbon/bows/fringies. Or?

[Eric Stahlhut]

Yep!

All of my fringies seem to be made primarily by Deschler. The two
C. Poellath badges were most probably made post-WW1. I'll keep digging, though! I 'd very much like to find an item other than a
flight badge that has a 'K'.

[Eric Stahlhut]

More Poellath

Sorry it's not Imperial, but we're building up images.

[Tony & Kaiser]

ö or oe?

I have always wondered if in fact, there were two companies involved, Karl Pöllath and Carl Poellath, or is it that Herr P used Karl Pöllath during the war and Carl Poellath after? Eric may be able to explain, why some German documents have words spelled with both the ö and the oe interchangeable in written text? Having seen this, it does not surprise me to see both. I was told once by a respectable Austrian collector many years back, that there were in fact, two Pöllath’s making badges, a Karl and a Carl, but without proof, that holds zero weight.

As for Frank's badge, it has one very significant feature. It appears to be of absolutely superb quality, as should any flight badge. I see no casting marks, no rough-cut edges, with highly defined features. It would be great to find out for sure when or why there are two different spellings. Both my wartime badges are marked "KARLPÖLLATH SCHROBENHAUSEN SILBER" in three lines, identical in every way to Rick's badge. Herr Stogie Rick also agreed in the posting "EXTREME CLOSE UP: Unmarked Prussian Observer Badge" with the ever desired "Ding Ding Ding" that this is the maker mark that he associates with an original. I'll see if Rick L. will post pics of my two here for you to look at. Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[stogieman]

Hmmmmm....

I've stayed out of this one as I've only handled 2 (owned 1-stamped) Bavarian Pilot Badge over the years. I do have an original, period case for a Pöllath flight badge, but a Prussian badge was inside. Odd, but both originals. I'll try and scan the case logo for the image gallery tonight.

[Erich B.]

Carl oder Karl

Just another observation--I believe in earlier posts, the cross atop the crown was discussed--I don't know if this applied only to Prussian vs. Bavarian flight badges, but I recall that a cross that looked like a cut-out cross from the reverse of the badge was considered a post 1918 trait. The cross reverse on the pre 1918 badges are not cut out, and are usually a trapezoid or triangle shape.
I'm no expert, but the badges I have do not have the cross cut out.
I hope this makes sense!
Erich

[Rick Research]

Aha! Note "C" "oe" on 1938+ badge... perhaps... PERHAPS a Later Mark, then? Data accumulating!

Here is the obverse of Tony's Karl Pöllath Bavarian pilots badge, in x200 size. (If we can keep to a common size, it makes point by point comparisons easier)

[Rick Research]

Frank can tell us how his looks compared with this. Here's the back of Tony's badge, x200%:

[Rick Research]

I see a number of differences, indicating two different dies. Frank's badge's reverse has full rays and different shape around the pin catch behind the crown and at the pin hook. On the front, there are differences in the hill slopes. Frank's photo isn't as clear, but the house in the right foreground looks different too.

Note inside the upper left area of the base bow ribbon too-- there are 3 lines in Frank's on that side, but two smaller, extra lines at top in Tony's.

[Tony & Kaiser]

Those crazy Bavarians

Erich,
It has been my observation that in regards to the cross atop the crown, for Prussian flight badges the cross has a squared shape and is not cut out, while Bavarian badges have a very distinct Christian cross that is cut out. Must have something to do with that Bavarian greeting of Grüß Gott (great God) that Bavarians exchange? Tony

[Eric Stahlhut]

Here's one marked Karl Po"llath as well. A bit different, though.
The cross has been reattached, it seems. It also has a bad ding at the eight o'clock section of the wreath.

[Eric Stahlhut]

.

[Tony & Kaiser]

"catching some rays"

I know that I am inviting the wrath of all that claim "one die and one die only " per manufacturer, but in cloth headgear or Pickelhauben, an individual could approach a tailor and order a standard version of a Pickelhaube or cap, a quality version, or an "extra" version, which would be the maker's highest quality. Is it conceivable that Pöllath and other makers followed suit and offered one or more "levels" of badge dependant on what the individual wished to spend? This is of course, conjecture, but it could be an explanation why we see badges with different backings with the same maker mark, such as all rayed on some and partial rayed on others. Or perhaps the different backing plates signify different years when the badge was made? Honestly, I have no idea. Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com

[Tony & Kaiser]

Wait a minute............

Hey....it just occurred to me, (and this radical) could the different backing plates on what appear to be original badges and other differences indicate that Pöllath was "farming out" badges to smaller manufacturers to meet with the demand? We all know the aspect of the cottage industry in Imperial Germany, perhaps the slight differences in badges with the same maker mark, are because the badges actually <u>were</u> made by a different makers, supplied to the contractor, and sold as a Pöllath. Is this a reasonable assumption? Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com