Question about GJ Dienstanzug features

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

These tunics would certainly lend credence to your statements that GJ did not wear their arm of service on their shoulder boards. When you think about it, if they don't wear it on the Skibluse why would they wear it on the service tunic. Now I have more tunics to look for. I'm going to steal the enlisted man's photo for a post I need to make on my GJ thread. A white trimmed sleeve badge is the only one I don't have and this will finish things off nicely for me. Thanks in advance!
FYI I've scoured my resource material and was not able to find any reference to this practice. Excelpt the picyutre I put in my post #7. In looking again at the first picture you posted, I am uncomfortable with the way these shouder boards are sewn into place. I have never seen a shoulder board on a tunic that had any of the tongue that sticks out from the shoulder seam that the shoulder boards are sewn to showing. It is lways totally covered. That does not seem to be the case in your photo.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Gordon,

I share your concern about the NCO tunic as well. As I noted earlier it is missing the NCO cord around the collar. The sloppiness of the sewing is also something I noted. However...

I found this one in a huge pile of tunics. I'm talking maybe 50 to 100. They were being sold, in the US, for $4 each. The retailer probably gets $1 or $2 from each sale, the wholesaler probably $0.50. It is my experience that items sold in this way are not "sexed up" because who could profit from that? This is very, very different from pieces purchased individually where "sexing up" is unfortunately extremely common.

At first I thought the lack of colored piping was just a defect or something. But then I got my officer's version and it too lacks the colors. I've also looked at photos of other ski tunics and haven't seen colors on any of them either. Now, in this thread, there is some confirmation about this from posters with better first hand experience. Therefore, it seems that the piping is absent on GJ rank, at least for a period of time.

But that doesn't mean the NCO tunic is legit as currently assembled. In fact I don't believe it is.

My only guess is a GJ had to turn in a tunic for one of any number of reasons. To satisfy the return requirements he cobbled together a jacket from various spares of fellow GJ. The supply personnel didn't care about the details, it was accepted, and eventually it wound up in the surplus stream and my hands. The original GJ got the "profit" out of the arrangement, so that explains why someone would go through the trouble. I have some knowledge of soldiers doing things like this, which is where this theory of mine came from.

Steve

[Collectinsteve]

I just stumbled upon this earlier thread about GJ uniforms:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...j%E4ger&page=2

There is further photographic evidence, as well as at least one German poster's text, that shows the GJ (for whatever reason) do not have colored piping on their shoulder rank.

As far as I'm concerned this is now established fact. What remains is the more interesting question to answer... why?!?

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

There has never been any doubt that the GJ do not wear their arm of service colour on their shoulder boards on the Ski jacket. The picture I posted above clearly shows that they do wear it on their service jacket. As to why it is worn on one tunic and not on the other that, is yet to be discovered.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Gordon,

Ah I think there's a bit of confusion of terminology. Usually the term "service uniform" (Dienstanzug, in this case) is a generic term for the uniform worn during formal occasions, not a term assigned to one specific cut of uniform. For example, female BW members have a 2 pocket jacket, Luftwaffe has a blue uniform, Navy has a double breasted jacket or pull over white tunic, etc. but they are all called Dienstanzug. In that light, when I have been talking about GJ "Dienstanzug" I have been speaking about what the GJ traditionally wear, which is the Skibluse and Skihosen.

I thought I cleared that up on the 1st page of this thread, however I see that I could have been clearer about that because I did not know GJ members now wear the same 4 pocket jacket and straight legged trousers that the rest of the Heer wears. So I thought there wasn't room for misinterpretation of what I was talking about (Skibluse) when I used the term Dienstanzug. But reading back through everything again I can see now that you clearly were thinking I was talking about the 4 pocket service jacket. Hence us talking past each other in spots.

To clear things up...

I have only been talking about the Skibluse, not the 4 pocket jacket apparently wore as of late (and not in the 1970s or 1980s, correct?). I have no knowledge of GJ practice with current 4 pocket jackets at all, one way or the other, therefore my comments do not apply to that style of jacket. Apparently this lack of color on the shoulders of the Skibluse was well known by pretty much everybody but me

Now I guess I have two questions. First is why the GJ did not wear branch of service colors on their Skibluse shoulders. Second, what years did the GJ wear the Skibluse as their Dienstanzug?

Thanks and sorry for the confusion.

Steve

[speedytop]

Steve,

I know, that I write it the second time, but it could be, that it is the third time:

The Schibluse (Skibluse) is a blouse, it is not a jacket!
With this blouse everybody can see, it is a Gebirgsjäger, you do not need further differentiations.

But is a part of the Dienstanzug.

And I think, that the Gebirgsjäger wear the Skibluse since 1960, but I don't know it exactly.


The shoulder board in Post 15 is wrong, it could only be for EM, not for NCO.

Uwe

[Collectinsteve]

Hello Uwe,

Is the Skibluse still worn today?

Yes, I know the shoulder rank for that jacket is wrong because there is no metal cord around the neck. I assumed someone removed the cord. But there are other problems with the jacket too. I think a soldier threw pieces together and turned it in. See my longer description below.

I have found one of the most confusing parts of collecting is what to call things. Especially when discussing things internationally. In English, for example, a "blouse" is usually a term for loose fitting female shirt. "Jacket" in English is a very flexible term and it usually describes something that is worn over a shirt, without being specific about the style. "Smock" is often used to describe an item worn by airborne soldiers even if it has a zipper or button front like a normal infantry type "jacket". And then of course English also has the word "coat" which is often used instead of "jacket" and "jacket" instead of "coat". Etc.

It can be very confusing at time

Steve

[speedytop]

Hi Andrew,

yes, it is still worn; they are Gebirgsjäger!

Please see here, page 10 (11), it is the last edition:

http://www.bundeswehr.de/fileserving...TERNET_neu.pdf


My next, and I hope my last explanation: The Schibluse is something between a shirt and a jacket.

Uwe

[juoneen]

Are these the same boards?Do they partain to the others shown?

[juoneen]

[juoneen]

These were the ones i mentioned stitched together



This backing color reminds me of the wachtbatalion under collar material.

[juoneen]

This is the real color.

[juoneen]

The flash ruined the color on this shot.


So what do you think these were for...?? a medic ...a mountain div medic? I paid a lot for these...(1.00), so dont hurt my feelings ....(brrt!)ps. happy easter.

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks Uwe!

OK, then what event does a GJ wear the Skibluse, what event does a GJ wear the normal 4 (or 2 if female) jacket?

Steve

[speedytop]

Hi Steve (not Andrew!),

a Gebirgsjäger could wear the Schibluse only in specified formations.

He have to wear the jacket (and not the Schibluse), if he serve in another branch of service.


ZDV 37/10, Nr. 238:

"Schibluse, grau 3)

3) nur festgelegte Truppenteile Wehrbereichskommando VI / 1.Gebirgsdivision, Jägerbrigade 37 und der Gebirgs- und Winterkampfschule;
Soldaten der Truppengattung Gebirgsjäger dürfen diesen Anzug außerhalb von festgelegten Truppenteilen Wehrbereichskommando VI/ 1.Gebirgsdivision, Jägerbrigade 37 und der Gebirgs- und Winterkampfschule nur bei Verwendungen im Bundesministerium der Verteidigung, in Kommandobehörden, Ämtern, Schulen, Verteidigungsbezirkskommandos und in integrierten Stäben tragen."

Uwe