Slinter pattern info

[Gordon Craig]

Michel,

I would rather see your items posted to this thread than start another one. It would be more useful to all of us, yourself included, if all of the information concerning these uniforms was posted in the same place. If no one has answered your question on this thread I doubt that they would answer on a separate thread. The collectors knowledgable in these uniforms have already participated in this thread and will have received emails of your posts. Of course it is your choice to post your pictures where you wish.

Regards,

Gordon

[michelwijnand]

new stuff

A day later than I thought but my camera broke down on me (again).
But here are some pictures of the gear I just acquired:








And the jacket I already had:


I also have the Gamaschen, and a M56 Liner is on the way

Michel

[Gordon Craig]

I have a question, I have a jacket, a hood and the gloves. Was there a change in the number of buttons to attach the hood to at some point? Or maybe it differs with different sizes? I'm asking because my jacket has 5 buttons under the collar, and the hood has only 4

Michel

Michel,

Thanks for posting your items to this thead.
Question- In your first post you said that your jacket had five "buttons" but that your hood had "four". I cound five snap fasteners on the hood you posted pictures of. That should work on your jacket ok.

Regards,

Gordon

[michelwijnand]

buttons

well the center button fits only to the top of the hood because there is a button too, only they are the other way round

Michel

[Gordon Craig]

Michel,

Sorry, I should have looked at my jacket and hood before my last post. The snap fasteners on my tunic and hood are evenly spaced. There are not two close together in the centre of the hood as the ones on your hood are. Perhaps some of the other forum members would be kind enough to look at their jackets and hoods and tell us what the snap fastener arrangement is on the uniforms they have. Perhaps as you suggest there were two different arrangements for the positions of the snap fasteners. Are there any markings in your tunic and hood that would indicate what year they were made in? The makers label in the inside pocket of my jacket is not readable and there are no markings in the hood.
Here is a picture of the layout of the snap fasteners on my hood/tunic.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Ah, a topic near and dear to my heart From my research there are a fair number of variations of the basic splinter pattern. The list bellow refers to the primary user, the basic pattern of the shapes, and the base color

1. Infantry, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
2. Infantry, Narrow Stroke (Green)
3. Para, Narrow Stroke (Green)
4. Air Landing trousers, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
5. Mountain trousers, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
6. Infantry, Broad Stroke (Inverse)
7. Para, Broad Stroke

There is also a variation on the Infantry trousers that has different adjustment tabs, but I'm not sure what to make of that.

Of the above list I have all but #3, which is pictured in Peterson's Post War Derivatives book. #3 and #7 are in very different cuts from each other as well as from the others.

There may be more than this, but I've no knowledge of more.

When I have a chance (not for a few weeks likely) I will post some pictures of the different variations.

Steve

[michelwijnand]

I seem to have the same problem with the markings, in the inside pocket it only shows a few little blurs of ink, and the hood has nothing at all. My gloves are the only Splitter-objects that have markings

By the way, does anyone know where to find a Feldkoppel of the first model used with the Splittertarn uniform?

Michel

[Collectinsteve]

There are several very early BW belts, as much of the equipment was still being experimented with. The most common type is a grey cotton webbing with light metal two piece buckle and two metal size adjustment buckles. It could be considered the first true belt with the others before it being experimental.

Like much of the early BW stuff, the items are hard to find and usually go for big bucks. Expect to pay USD $60-$100 for the relatively common type. The horrid state of the USD vs. the EUR is already taken into consideration in my estimates.

Steve

[michelwijnand]

OK, I know tht model, but I can't find it anywhere, maybe I just don't know where to look for early BW since it isn't my exact collecting area, which is international combat uniforms in general.
I already expected the high price also.
I have a belt in my possesion which looks like the later standardized belt but the buckle is the same, and the belt itself is a bit like the US M56 material, there are also holes in the bottom edge for attaching equipment with the US M1910 hook system used in a lot of countries.
Does anybody have any info on that? Maybe an estimate as to when it was used or anything.

Michel

[Hugh Zillmann old]

From The list bellow refers to the primary user, the basic pattern of the shapes, and the base color

1. Infantry, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
2. Infantry, Narrow Stroke (Green)
3. Para, Narrow Stroke (Green)
4. Air Landing trousers, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
5. Mountain trousers, Narrow Stroke (Blue)
6. Infantry, Broad Stroke (Inverse)
7. Para, Broad Stroke

There is also a variation on the Infantry trousers that has different adjustment tabs, but I'm not sure what to make of that.



There may be more than this, but I've no knowledge of more.

.

Steve

Hello Steve,

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm curious about the 'research' which you have undertaken.

As far as I am aware there were only two distinct variants of this uniform: that for the Fallschirmjaeger (as illustrated in Peterson's work) and that for the rest.
As far as I can tell, apart from the variations one expects to encounter with different manufacturers (and differing 'bolts' of material) there were no distinct pattern or style variations apart from those already noted.

Which raises for me the question of how you have reached the conclusions which you draw in your first posting.

Don't take this as a criticism of your thesis. None is intended. I am just curious as to the objective matters which you have relied upon in formulating what is, obviously, a very carefully constructed set of observations.

Cheers,

Hugh

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Welcome to the forum. I'm with Hugh on wanting to see your photos and line of reasoning in all these different designs you have attributed to the dufferent parts of the Heer. Always willing to learn. Don't keep us waiting too long.

Regards,

Gordon

[Guardian 5]

OK, I know tht model, but I can't find it anywhere, maybe I just don't know where to look for early BW since it isn't my exact collecting area, which is international combat uniforms in general.
I already expected the high price also.
I have a belt in my possesion which looks like the later standardized belt but the buckle is the same, and the belt itself is a bit like the US M56 material, there are also holes in the bottom edge for attaching equipment with the US M1910 hook system used in a lot of countries.
Does anybody have any info on that? Maybe an estimate as to when it was used or anything.

Michel

Michel - Wonderful items. Could you post the codes and dates from your field flasks when you have the opportunity?

I'm not familiar with the belt you are describing. I saw a U.S. World War II style pistol belt (Model 1936) on a mannequin at the Panzer Museum in Muenster. The mannequin was dressed in a c.1956 "affenjacke". The only difference I noted between the U.S. model belt and the BW belt was that the BW belt had the distinctive German "pebble" finish on the first aid snap button. The buttons on U.S. belts are smooth. American belts are usually stamped with a "U.S." in black letters near the buckle. Most U.S. M1936 pistol belts are khaki colored as was the BW belt I saw in Muenster. I have pictures of BW soldiers wearing this belt in the 1956 time period. I'm traveling away from my home now, but will post some pictures when I return.

Do you have a picture of your belt that you could post?

Congratulations on putting together a great collection of early BW field gear.

All the best - TJ

[michelwijnand]

hbnhrnj

Thomas, thanks, I didn't know that those belts were also used, but I checked some of my pictures and there it was, I guess I overlooked it.
I will make some pictures of the belt when I can, my collection is in my father's storage building in another village. I'm almost certain that there wasn't a snap button, also the belt is oliv green and doesn't have US stamped on it, and the buckle is the same as on the belts from the 80's

I have a M56 inner helmet on the way, when it arrives I'll also post pictures of it.
And I ordered a M60/85, and the first and second type of M59 (or 60?) helmets.

And the markings on the first type canteen is PSL56, and the green coconut canteens are both HRE60, one of them has the full factory name on the inside of the leather, Heinrich Ritter Esslingen a.N.IV / 60

Michel

[Guardian 5]

Michel - Could it be that you have a previously unknown variation of a Bundeswehr combat belt? The excitment builds........

There is a dedicated following of BW helmet lovers who will be very happy to see pictures of your new helmets; especially the helmet liner from the c.1956
M1A1 style helmet.

Thanks to you, I now know that PSL also made the plastic style canteen (my example is from ASW). Also, I did not know that HRE stamped the full factory name on the inside of the leather straps on the "coconut" style canteens.

Great stuff!

Does anyone know the proper Bundeswehr nomenclature/designation for the canteens in Michel's collection?

Are we obligated to come up with a designation if one isn't readily available, i.e., "First Model BW Field Flask", etc.?

Thanks - TJ

[michelwijnand]

fgbj

Well I hope so, also because it only cost me 5 Euro at a small militaria market near where I live. I will go take a picture of it in the weekend, it's attached to my 60's Filzlaus uniform, so I put it in my "depot"-area.

When I get my helmets I will make pictures of them all and post them in the right thread, that's where I found out about the M56 helmet. I immediately searched through a lot of US helmets for sale to find one german inner helmet made by Schubert I believe (S.W.B.56)

The only examples of the first type canteen I've seen on ebay were marked PSL, now I know it was also made somewhere else. I also didn't know about the full name being stamped on anything before I bought it, only 1 of the 2 green coconut style canteens has these markings though.

I think I have read a official name somewhere once, don't know what it was anymore, so maybe someone else knows?

Michel