Slinter pattern info

[michelwijnand]

spaten

Does anyone know how this guy is carrying his E-tool by the way? I saw it on a few pictures and don't understand it



Michel

[Asbjoern]

This is one of the two early types of folding shovels which was carried with a strap across the chest ... somewhere in the extralong Bundeswehrlovers - thread are pictures of the first type...or just scan the outdoor-forum on www.multiboard.com (its the german Militärfahrzeugforum) where you can find this thread: http://www.multi-board.com/board/ind...threadID=35230 ...and many more on early BW.

Regards,

Jens

[michelwijnand]

thx

Thanks, I saw some clear pictures, of the type on the photo I posted (which was incidentally also from that forum). I think I have the same E-tool with the other carrier which is attached to the belt, the E-tool is dated 1957 and I have to decypher the markings on the E-tool but I expect '59 or '60 or something close.

By the way, has someone ever seen clear pictures of the green '56 belt with the metal rings on it in use? I don't know if I have to put it on my uniform withe the 2 rings up and 1 down, or 1 up and 2 down and I can't seem to find any clear pictures.

Michel

[Collectinsteve]

A picture of the standard issue field belt for the 1950s and early 1960s.



Steve

[michelwijnand]

new ****t

So I am kind of impatient sometimes, and I couldn't wait for a outer shell of the M56 to come by, so I just took a picture with the 2nd model M60 helmet (with the 6 rivets)



In the backpack is the Amöbentarn Zeltplane, and in my hands are the Splitter-mittens.
The Spaten is the one with the textile cover.
Any suggestions on what I could improve except for getting a 2-piece M56 helmet? (I do have the inner helmet)

Cheers,
Michel

[Klaus1989]

Very good. The only things I notice: no rank visible (I guess you are NCO or officer because Kartentasche) and Knobelbecher is more common to wear with splittertarn.

Here is another period photo, shows Zeltbahn attached below Kampftasche. I am not sure how this would work because I do not have one, but interesting:



I have seen Bw M1 helmets on ebay.de sometimes, just have to look. There is one now, but liner and net are not Bw, so I am not sure if shell is or not:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Stahlhelm-fruehe-...item519226c4c9

Where did you find Schnürschuhe? I need pair to complete early BGS uniform and have hard time to find any.

regards
Klaus

[Guardian 5]

Michel - What an excellent re-construction!

Given the rarity of your ensemble, I can understand your impatience to share it with us before it was complete (and for that I am thankful.....).

I think Klaus has a good point about the rank. Here is an illustration of a senior NCO wearing "pin-on" rank. This may work for you because it will help preserve the originality of the garment.

In the excellent photo furnished by Klaus and in my picture, the helmets are heavily camouflaged. Perhaps you could incorporate this into your reconstruction. It would increase authenticity and help hide the 'wrong' style helmet.

You could also add a whistle, binoculars, a pen or a radio. The BW used U.S. World War II "walkie talkies" at the time. I'd also think about a weapon. G-1s are hard to come by, but perhaps you could find a deactivated U.S. M-1 Carbine.

Again, please accept my congratulations on a job well done.

All the best - TJ

[Collectinsteve]

Nice job indeed!! I've tried a couple of times to get that model belt and gasmask can, but so far I've not been willing to spend the money these things go for. $100 for a belt is nuts

The style of boot depends on which year you're trying to portray. The boots you have are perfect for 1956 since the Knobelbecher had not been introduced yet from what I remember (1957?). The belt and gasmask are also more consistent with a 1956 portrayal than later as well since these are the earlier models. Having mixed green and blue variants of Splittertarn should be OK too because I'm pretty sure both were produced in 1956.

As for the rank, I've seen a fairly large number of period pictures and rank is usually not present at all. So you're fine there. There are two types of rank that are acceptable for Splittertarn:

1. Dienstanzug type. Cloth type for junior NCO ranks on arm, metal rank on shoulders. I don't think I've ever seen officer rank on shoulders.

2. Panzeranzug type. This is the woven style that was specially produced for Panzer uniforms, similar to that used on Luftwaffe uniforms.

I think you're better off with no rank, simply because it's the more common thing and unissued rank sewn on to a used uniform never looks good.

Steve

[Gordon Craig]

michelwijnand,

Interesting reconstruction. Thanks for illustrating it for us.

Steve,

Your past comments on the different colours of camo always left me confused to a certain point as to how one decided what colour we were talking about. michelwijnand combination really illustrates the difference between the two background colours. Thanks for mentioning it.

Regards,

Gordon

[Collectinsteve]

Gordon,

Yes, indeed this is a good opportunity for comparison. Unfortunately for us collectors, flash photos and weathering sometimes makes it extremely difficult to tell the difference between the two colors variants.

Below are two pictures to show how much fading/use affects colors. The first picture shows an almost unissued set of trousers next to a much better than average condition jacket. Both are of the Blue variety.

The second picture shows an extremely used Broad Splinter para jacket on top of an unissued Reverse Broad Splinter infantry jacket. When new the para jacket had the same colors, but not for the same shapes (light green and rust brown are switched).

Amazing what 5 or 6 years of continuous use in the field can do to a bit of colored cloth, eh?

Steve

[Gene T]

Amazing what 5 or 6 years of continuous use in the field can do to a bit of colored cloth, eh?

Steve

No. We are all reasonably familiar with the effects of UV on dye compounds. What IS amazing is that you continue to casually and almost accidentally show us one-of-a-kind items that some of us didn't even know existed until now.

Isn't there some sort of commandment against inciting desperate envy?


Gene T

[Asbjoern]

Yes, a near to 100% complete reconstruction of an early 1957 grenadier! One detail which could be added is the "Gasplane" (NBC protection tarp) which was worn in a extra pouch these days before it wandered to one of the pockets of the trouser. While the pouch itself is available on the market the tarp itself will be hard to purchase...

Regards,

Jens

[Collectinsteve]

Jens,

Good point about the Gasplane. It isn't very commonly seen in period pictures. It's even extremely difficult to find in WW2 pictures. I guess soldiers kept "losing" them to cut down on weight and get rid of something that is quite awkward. How long do you think it was in use with the BW?

Somehow I won a near brand new one, in its case, along with a complete gasmask can, strap, mask, and filter. I guess the Elite BW Collectors were all on Holiday that week

Gene T,

Heh... sorry about that! I thought I had already mentioned it earlier in this or another Splittertarn thread. Yes, the Reverse Broad Splinter jacket is definitely not well know. In fact, this is the only example I've ever seen in any medium. It was on eBay many years ago and I paid very, very dearly for it. This and my Broad Splinter para set are by far the two most expensive things I own in my entire collection. Considering the sheer volume of junk I have, that's saying a lot.

The Reverse Broad Splinter jacket was apparently the BW's last gasp attempt of retaining a traditional splinter camouflage pattern of some sort. I've seen many people say that there is no evidence that political pressure played no role in dropping of Splittertarn (or camo in general), and that cost and comfort were the only two reasons. I disagree.

If cost and comfort were the only two reasons, then why would they have bothered implementing two different pattern variations after the production of "Narrow Splinter" ceased? Why would Narrow Splinter have gone through two, probably three, color changes in its extremely short life? Why not produce a cheaper and more comfortable camouflage uniform to replace it, just as other countries did over time? Surely a simple cotton camouflage uniform would have been both cheaper and more comfortable than Filzlaus? Surely their experience with Arbeitsanzug would have shown that possibility, as it eventually did (i.e. Moleskin was partially based on Arbeitsanzug).

Personally, I think the circumstantial evidence is pretty clear that there was pressure to change the pattern because of its ties to the 3rd Reich. This pressure was completely separate from the issues of cost and comfort of the uniform itself. I think that attempts to change the pattern proved inadequate to satisfy the concerns so they not only dropped Splittertarn, but camouflage completely. Cost and comfort were factors only in the specific end of the Splittertarn uniform, just as cost and comfort were the likely end of the Filzlaus uniform which replaced it. And it makes sense that the BW officially said that it dropped the uniform due to practical issues instead of emotional ones. Militaries, and government and corporations in general, resist admitting to changes based on public perception because it only encourages them to complain more

Steve

[Klaus1989]

Yes, a near to 100% complete reconstruction of an early 1957 grenadier! One detail which could be added is the "Gasplane" (NBC protection tarp) which was worn in a extra pouch these days before it wandered to one of the pockets of the trouser. While the pouch itself is available on the market the tarp itself will be hard to purchase...

Regards,

Jens

If he is early 1957, he should have regular Spaten too and not Klappspaten, since I think this was introduced around 1959? I have no idea what exact time he portrays, since Bw had some equipment changes in 1950s.

regards
Klaus

[michelwijnand]

jffhkk

Thank you all for your comments,

@ Klaus: yeah I'm constantly asking sellers if their helmet has the right markings, but no luck so far. I got the Schnürschuhe from ebay from a seller called camp-carrol1969. You sould try asking if there's another pair, they sometimes pop up again with early BW and NVA stuff, and also WW2 and Vietnam era US militaria.
I already have my Knobelbecher on my Filzlaus uniform, I always try to make uniforms as diverse as possible without having to buy a lot of the same things everytime, and I liked the look with these shoes, remembers me a bit of WW2 soldiers, as does this camo a bit
Also, I'm not trying to completely replicate a certain year, but I just managed to find al these things from before 1960, the Spaten is from 59, what did the straight one look like, do you maybe have a picture?

@ TJ: I think I'll try to find those rank insignia, it'll look good, and in time I'll try to find some of those accesories, I'm too busy with completing some other uniforms (again:P)
Maybe sometime I'll buy a weapon for this uniform, I don't usually buy a lot of weapons because the paperworks here are a real pain in the S.

@ Steve: The belt was quite difficult to get, it was the 2nd to last thing I managed to find, I also have the later gasmask in a can and it's on my Filzlaus uniform.
I didn't bother to look at the different color variations, but I saw a picture with 2 guys building a mortar and an officer with a different colored jacket and trousers, so I thought I'd just put together what I could find
That jacket in your 2nd picture really catched my eye though, I haven't seen anything like that before

@ Jens: I'm already trying to find it, I hope it will pop up complete somewhere, I'll keep my eyes open at Bockhorn Olrtimer fair, last time I made quite a few good finds :P

Cheers,
Michel