BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

[Marksharky]

I have been in contact with him via email for awhile and have been exchanging ex-service info between the two of us, some trading of items.............. pictures & uniform info about his BGS & Berlin Riot Police service, for pictures and info on my USCG & Law Enforcement service. He is a collector as well as a veteran..... and a wealth of late BGS info. If you check out one of his website pages, you will see photos of a US Army Military Police patrol Car that he has been restoring. The car came from one of the German-US Army bases.

I'll mention this thread to him and see if he wants to get involved.

Cheers,
Mark

[Marksharky]

Here is the link to the website:

http://www.hotdogandsodacompany.de/h...-soda-company/

The uniforms photos are a mix of uniforms he wore while in the service and ones that he collected. Great pictures of gear as well.

Now we have the link in this thread, where it ought to be

Cheers,
Mark

[Collectinsteve]

Thanks Mark! It would be nice to see him participate here. He's got a great collection and a good sense of the correct history of the items.

Steve

[Marksharky]

Yellow BGS Shirt

I picked up a late BGS uniform shirt from a fellow collector and BGS veteran over in Germany the other day and thought folks might like to have a look. I am wondering when the BGS switched over to the yellow police style shirts. I also have had a tough time finding definitive info on the time line for the various shirt colors the BGS used through the years.

This shirt appears to have had the original sleeve insignia removed and a new set hand stitched over the old site, by hand. I'll be going through my arches and eagles to find a set that matches the old stitch shadow better and then machine sew them on.

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[Collectinsteve]

Wow, that is a badly done repair job. Not only is it hand stitched, but it is done very poorly. Misaligned, bunched up cloth, etc. Do it right or send the badges separately, that's my philosophy.

The BGS were compelled to change their uniforms at the same time as all the Staat Polizei (and presumably Zoll and others too). This transition happened between 1976 and 1978, for the most part. BGS, however, did manage to retain two unique aspects to their uniforms:

1. Collar tabs on their service jackets
2. Traditional BGS shoulder ranks

No other force kept their collar tabs (like S-H Pol for example) or their ranks. BGS had to drop both of these in the early 2000s. 2002 IIRC.

BGS service shirts, like the one you have Mark, usually have their badges removed. Same with Polizei shirts. I've never understood why because the removed badges are then sold off for surplus.

Of course all of these uniforms are now out of service and the new Blue ones are standard issue.

Steve

[SOLDAT1]

Hi guy's
here is my original sewn insignia on the shirt, and complete jacket lucky to have complete i guess

Robert

[Marksharky]

I would love to see an example or two of the pre-yellow uniform shirts.
One more question....... When the shirt is worn with a jacket, I would presume that no shoulder boards would be worn on the shirt, but when the shirt is worn alone, the shoulder boards would be attached. Am I correct on this?

The shirt was "free", so I can't complain much about it! It was thrown in as a bonus on another deal. I picked up an older sewing machine a while back that is very heavy duty, so I can start doing all of my uniform repairs and restorations myself, without borrowing my wife's "good" machine. It's perfect for projects like this and I can keep the correct colored thread all spooled up and ready to go.

[Collectinsteve]

Robert,

Looks like you have a nice 1968 production Sumpftarn jacket. Note that originally the 1967 and 1968 models did not have the "Bundesgrenzschutz" badge on them. These were added sometime around 1970 to conform to then current regulations. It's very rare to find one without the arc badge on it, so in no way does this take away the value. Just passing on a tidbit of info if you didn't already know it

Mark,

The old shirts were a bluish gray and look almost identical to the shirt you have in terms of construction. The cloth was more cotton than poly, I think. Shirts are difficult to find.

Wearing the jacket over a shirt with shoulder rank on it would be uncomfortable long term. But for short periods I think it wouldn't be too bad. I think for the most part the wearer either wears the shirt or the jacket for his daily duties, so I don't think they do much swapping?? I'll ask a Polizei friend of mine what he usually does.

Steve

[SOLDAT1]

Hi Steve
Thanks for the info very interesting

[Gordon Craig]

I would love to see an example or two of the pre-yellow uniform shirts.
One more question....... When the shirt is worn with a jacket, I would presume that no shoulder boards would be worn on the shirt, but when the shirt is worn alone, the shoulder boards would be attached. Am I correct on this?

The shirt was "free", so I can't complain much about it! It was thrown in as a bonus on another deal. I picked up an older sewing machine a while back that is very heavy duty, so I can start doing all of my uniform repairs and restorations myself, without borrowing my wife's "good" machine. It's perfect for projects like this and I can keep the correct colored thread all spooled up and ready to go.

Marksharky,

I think that the chance of wearing shoulder boards on a shirt and under the service tunic are slim. The boards from this time frame are thin enough but the rank stars are high. It would make getting the tunic on and off somewhat difficult. Just my guess however.
Here are some pictures of a BGS grey shirt. I bought a complete uniforms several years ago and this shirt was with it. I'll include pictures of a BGS tie as well. These ties, like most polizei ties, are not marked. They are a darker green than the polizei ties.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The sewing on the inside of the shirt sleeve and the size label on the neck of the shirt.

[Gordon Craig]

The shirt label and the front of the tie.

[Gordon Craig]

The back of the tie.

[Marksharky]

Thanks for the photos and info on the grey shirt and tie. I have my eye out for one of the grey ones! I know from my time in US Law Enforcement, and the US Coast Guard, that there was the official department issued uniform items, and then there was the individual purchased uniform items that tended to be of a higher quality, but still met spec's. Was this the same in the BGS? So long as our uniforms looked correct and and were to spec, no one cared if the uniform parts were "official issue".

Was there a specification manual for BGS uniforms that spelled out the specs for each individual item? I know we had sections in our manuals that specified (in the USCG) what the exact color, cut and method of wearing and attaching insignia, pins, etc. were. If there is a BGS manual, it would be great to have access to a scanned or .pdf copy to assist with restoring and setting up uniforms............

I pulled off the badly sewn patches from my "bambus" colored shirt and re-sewed them with a machine. I also attached a set of shoulder boards with an original set of the metal buttons, sewed to a set of flat, plastic BGS buttons. I received this set of boards and buttons from a veteran in Berlin who used these on his old uniforms. He said that this was the method they used to attach the boards.
I still have a few stray threads to trim up along the edge of the patches, but here are a couple of pictures of the shirt with the newly sewn patches and shoulder boards.

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[Collectinsteve]

Congratulations... a very nice reconstruction job

The shirts I've seen, as well as the jackets, are all standard issue. Whereas I've seen a lot of private purchase BW uniforms. I am sure there were higher quality "unofficial" replacements for BGS service dress, but I personally haven't seen such items.

Steve