West German Helmets

[Gordon Craig]

Klaus,


Interesting questions. I have a helmet that appears to be exactly like yours that I bought as a BGS helmet. Same maker but different size shell. I didn't know that the police in different states used different liners. I always thought that an LS helmet would come with the same liner no matter who bought it. The same would go for other states and other makers. I haven't taken the time to go though my police helmets to see if I can find differences in the liners between different makers and different police forces. Being civilian organizations they could have used different liners if they were offered by the maker of the shells. Another line of research. Unfortunately, Baer isn't much help here.

Regards,

Gordon

[Klaus1989]

My observations: I assumed, that the Land standardised, which liner they used. Almost all Landespolizei units, except Berlin and S-H (not know about NRW, Saarland or RLP) use the "civil" liner. The I53 (or M31 for helmets with rivets), I have seen in BGS, S-H and Berlin. It is only used in M53 helmets (with and without vents). The other Länder used mostly postwar production M35 helmets.

Summary of M35 style helmets knowledge (? indicate unknown or uncertain/unproven):
BGS - M35, M53 (with and without vents); grey-green, darkgreen, bluegrey (BGS-See) rough finish
S-H - M53 (without and with? vents), M35?; grey-green [texture?]
Westberlin - M53 (without vents), M35?; olive, blue smooth
Niedersachsen - M35; bluegrey? smooth
Hessen - M34? (have seen one only); green smooth
BW - M35; green SD (Wappen) smooth
Bayern - M35; dark green SD (Bavarian policestar) smooth
Bremen - M35; green/bluegreen DD (tricolour and Wappen) smooth
Hamburg - M35; bluegreen DD (tricolour and Wappen) smooth
Saarland - ?
RLP - ?
NRW - ?


Regards
Klaus

[TRIMAZE]

Hi,
I introduce myself as a new member: Trimaze, French collector of German helmets for period 1916 - 1970, but more particularly interested in the helmets of the model 1935 manufactured in Germany after 1945;
I hope that I shall not make too many mistakes of vocabulary or syntax and that it will be easy for you to understand my American language; if need be, a moderator can correct me directly, I give him my agreement in advance!!





I have three hemets similar to those of Gordon and Klaus.


In my opinion, these helmets are BGS helmets that have been refurbished for a second life after an important first service time.
These three helmets are M 35/ 53 of L&S initial manufacture.
Two have the usual color of paint of BGS helmets, but with a less rough texture finish, and the third one has a lighter green paint, but with the same texture.




Contrary to the factory issued M35/53 L&S helmets ,which had rough texture paint outside and smootth paint inside, these three helmets are entirely covered with rough finish, often hiding, partially or totally the L&S markings at the rear of the skirt.




It is unlikely that the L & S company has been concerned by this rehabilitation because if it still exists, it no longer manufactures helmets for a long time.
The I 53 liners are brand new and chinstraps are new or show just little wear, certainly spare parts, normally used to repair the damaged helmets.



Throughout its existence, the BGS has always maintained, repaired and reconditioned its own helmets either in its car repair services and armories or in the civilian market companies when the number of helmets was significant.




M 40 and M 42 shells of WWII were successively fitted with liners of the first model with rivets and later converted to standard M 53 with the new liner I 53, each time with significant work: plugging the rivets holes with welding, fixing the central screw inside the bomb of the helmet, each time with the re-painting of the shell ;

These WWII helmets were kept in active service a very long time,thanks to the adaptability and thrift control of the different BGS units.
This could explain the different shades of dark green paint observed, these transformations or refurbishments being not realized in a unique place.

Regards, Trimaze

[allen]

Great collection, Trimaze. I have an M35 type helmet I've always thought was BGS; it's got the holes for the old WW2 liner, but the split pins are cut off and it has a top suspension BW type liner. It's painted smooth olive green instead of BGS moosgrun, and oddly, the interior has a haphazard brushed on coat of olive drab over a very light green original coat - ?

[TRIMAZE]

Thanks, Allen.

Are there any markings on the shell of your helmet ? Particularly on the sides or the rear of the inner skirt ?

Regards,Trimaze

[Klaus1989]

Great collection, Trimaze. I have an M35 type helmet I've always thought was BGS; it's got the holes for the old WW2 liner, but the split pins are cut off and it has a top suspension BW type liner. It's painted smooth olive green instead of BGS moosgrun, and oddly, the interior has a haphazard brushed on coat of olive drab over a very light green original coat - ?

West Berlin police used olive painted helmets in early years of 1950s (before more common bluegrey). At first WW2 ones, then ventless M53. They appear on ebay.de occasionally. Yours could be one of these. BGS never used smooth olive helmets.

Regards
Klaus

[TRIMAZE]

Thanks Klaus.

Here are the two west Berlin police helmets :



The M 53 on the left and M 40 on the right.
The M 40 has a civilian post war liner.



and Bepo Berlin and 1955 manufacture stamps.



The shell is made by Quist, but perhaps after 1945.



The M 53 is a classic one :



but is not an L&S production.



Regards, Trimaze

[langemarck]

for who is interested, I decided to sell my collection police helmets. (Saarland, Hessian,Baden,Hamburg and two Bayern)
all showed here in post 144,145,162,165,184,188.
Pm for info.

[TRIMAZE]

hi,
thinking to receive two para GSG 9 M 38 style helmets from the SEK (Spezialeinsatzkommandos, sort of SWAT) of Baden-Wurttemberg in Stuttgart,
I received those two unknown helmets:





If chinstraps and shell screws are similar, the comparison with GSG 9 M 38 is clear: it's not the same helmet at all!





Besides the difference between conventional green polizei smooth paint and rough BGS paint of the GSG9 helmet, the shape of the shell is very different!

Comparing with other helmets, I think I have found the solution by comparison with a Bundeswher para helmet Modell 1A1 , but the visor and the edges appear to have been cut down, and then covered with a plastic seam of car door type.





The comparison of the two liners seems to confirm the hypothesis:



i keep contact with the owner of these helmets, a retired member of SEK Stuttgart, and try to get a picture of this helmet in action or training, but it seems to be very difficult because they were very rarely used.

Regards,
Trimaze

[Gordon Craig]

Trimaze,

Great looking helmets. I have one of these in my collection as well although the decal on mine has been damaged. Having two of these very rare helmets is a real find. Especially as you know the guy who wore them. I really hope that you can find a picture of them in wear by the SEK Stuttgart.

Regards,

Gordon

[TRIMAZE]

Thanks Gordon,
This man told me he wore this helmet in action only once in ten years, in a anti-sniper operation. Unhappily, no picture at all. Perhaps a member of the forum has one !

Regards,
Trimaze

[Gordon Craig]

Trimaze,

I guess then that there is probably no chance of us finding this helmet in wear on an operation. Perhaps your contact could tell us what uniform they wore at the time these helmets were on issue? Or better yet, a picture of the uniform.


Regards,

Gordon

[TRIMAZE]

hi, Gordon

I think i have found one tonight on the net:



Sondereinsatzkommando SEK, Göppingen 2007

Zurück zum Eintrag von Sondereinsatzkommando SEK

this photo is not very clear, but the helmets are here !

Regards,

Trimaze

[Gordon Craig]

Trimaze,

Thanks for the photo. Good addition to my collection.

Regards,

Gordon

[Jeroen P]

Does anybody know whether ww1 helmets (M1916 and the like) were also re-used by police, BGS and so on after 1945? Or did they only recycle Wehrmacht helmets?