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    Opinions on a Battledress

    Ok troops,

    So i got this 1943 dated british made BD off a Collector in the states who recently got it of a collector in Canada who had it 15 years after the first sale out of the wood work from the UK with some work. This man is confirmed in the rank and being from the UK, not a native of Newfoundland, confirmed on the rolls for North Africa and Italy etc, no problems there. According to the original seller he has been over it with the UV light and not found anything bad anywhere. I have not had it in hand, yet, to look at. It came right out of the UK about 15 years ago and at first only the Medals and papers were for sale. The original seller said that he had got this Tunic during buying the rest as it was going to be split up, and actually the BD wasn't even for sale. The seller who got it in the UK at some point out of the woodwork was a coin and stamp collector but otherwise non collector. Now, i am not a BD collector as such so i would appreciate your thoughts. No questions return is ok so i am not worried there.

    My thoughts:

    1) The Rank, Red/Blue strip, and corps badge seem to me to be mounted weird. But I have also found examples of what looks like tropical rank being worn on Regt photos, as well as the Double flashes and landyard but this appears to be walking out dress and there are no other badges than the red and blue strip then in those photos, however some photos such as one of my uncle you can see the side of a 2nd army corps badge or earlier photos of other Soldiers show a clear oak ash and thorn badge (12th corps?). However in combat photos you see Flashes, corps insignia, or not, and ranks, with cloth cannons. Mostly on the ranks you see only the Newfoundland flash in Combat and no extra Flash for RA or other. I found one photo of a Sgt wearing the rank low like this. Normally the rank should be a lot higher and the badges a bit bunched up from what i see in photos. If you are a Sgt, you wouldn't want to wear your rank in a mess and different then other Sgts and the dress regs for insignia, however non textbook doesn't always mean bad. I have also not seen it up close as regards to the stitching, the flashes and Corps badge look hand stitched but the blue and red strip look machine stitched from this photo, and the rank again hand stitched but looks to be different thread?Just my thoughts there.

    Theres a guy wearing the stripes low....but a single instance amongst all wearing them correct.

    http://ngb.chebucto.org/NFREG/<wbr>WWII/ww2-166-regt-target45.<wbr>shtml

    Everybody else wears the red and blue bar in one with the pocket top and any div badge above that all bunched up.

    http://ngb.chebucto.org/NFREG/<wbr>WWII/ww2-166-regt-target145.<wbr>shtml

    http://ngb.chebucto.org/NFREG/WWII/w...arget102.shtml

    http://ngb.chebucto.org/NFREG/WWII/w...arget123.shtml

    2) Without looking further or talking to vets who knew the man and were with this Regt to find out more, it looks to me like what i will possibly find is that the shoulder tabs are original and the red and blue strip has been moved so somebody could attached the loose badges cloth and metal in his estate, or, maybe they are all original.

    3) Even if only the Nfld and RA flashes are original to the tunic, as in "untouched" I will still be quite happy.

    ?

    Kind Regards,

    Pete
    Attached Files
    Last edited by pete; 10-11-2012, 03:32 AM.

    #2
    .

    The vet (Top photo)
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      .

      .
      Attached Files

      Comment


        #4
        .

        My uncle (in the 59th) with a hint of a 2nd Army badge showing...

        http://www.portalbert.ca/images/album/sam_mugford.html

        http://www.themdays.com/memorial/per...ert_Peter.html

        Renactor

        http://www.network54.com/Forum/28173...05978/For+Sale!
        Attached Files

        Comment


          #5
          .

          Anybody have any opinions?

          Pete

          Comment


            #6
            Probably need to see better pics when you have it in your hands. I know more about British BD's and their insignia than I do about Canadian units. Looks like a good group, but I can understand your concerns about the plethora of insignia attached to it and it is possible that some of it has been added at a later date. I have seen plenty of Canadian made BD's used by Brits but not many if any done the other way around. I don't remember seeing Canadians wearing the 8th army flash though it does not mean they did not do so, I just don't remember seeing it done, maybe because I have not been looking for it.

            Regards,

            Jerry

            Comment


              #7
              .

              We were British before 1949 though, the 166th Nfld Fd Regt and 59th Heavy Regt were both Royal Artillery. I will indeed post more pics later!

              Pete

              Comment


                #8
                .

                Hi guys,

                Please help me out here, bad and good opinions as I am new to BD!


                Regards,

                Pete

                Comment


                  #9
                  It looks to me as though the badges have been placed in the correct position in relation to the ROYAL ARTILLERY shoulder designation, without considering the NEWFOUNDLAND one. If you use a rule to workout the placement of the badges as they are now, from the bottom of the NEWFOUNDLAND shoulder designation they will probably fall in the correct place.

                  I can umderstand the tape chevrons being used while overseas but on return to the UK and still wearing the Blouse post WW2 I would have expected them to be replaced. Maybe he did not get time to replace them before demob.

                  Marc

                  Comment


                    #10
                    .

                    Have you seen chevrons mounted so low though? I know there is a photo of this REgiment where it appears a Sgt has them mounted low above in my links. But, the rest of the photos of this Regt show Cloth Guns and Higher mounted chevrons?? Again i have yet to ask some vets.

                    Regards,

                    Pete

                    Comment


                      #11
                      .

                      Here is the Corps badge on the top of the shoulder?

                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cape-Breton-...item2c690c68b2

                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-WW2-Cana...item336caeb8e6

                      Regards,

                      Pete
                      Last edited by pete; 10-19-2012, 01:58 AM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I also wonder about the placement of the ribbon bar and, I assume, the loops for the full size medals. Shouldn't the loops be above the bar so the medals hide the bar when worn? Not an expert but it seems to me that the medals attach above the bar so when worn they hide the bar, so its not a duplicate.

                        If not sure, I'd steer clear. A lot of Canadian 'made ups' out there these days.


                        My tuppence worth.
                        Peter

                        Comment


                          #13
                          .

                          No idea, I haven't seen it in hand yet. There are photos of NCO's wearing ribbons in this fashion in a period photo of their return. The medals have just been mounted apparently for the photo. I think these undress ribbons have been there the whole time, we shall see. The whole group came from the UK 15 odd years ago apparently out of the woodwork from a non collector too. Full refund policey so I not worried.

                          http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co...d/page166.html

                          Regards,

                          Pete

                          Comment


                            #14
                            .

                            The uniforms. The battledress of Norman Baker who was British serving the British Army W.W’ 11 with the 166 Newfoundland Field Regiment Royal Artillery is exactly the dress for British Newfoundland soldiers W,W,11 worn at all functions. Your e-mail picture of the uniform is correctly how we were dressed. You are very fortunate and blessed to have comrade Norman Baker s uniform. Kind Regards. Norman W Oake.

                            5/5

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If this is a real Canadian tunic why is it missing the CVSM(Canadian Volutary Service Medal) and bar for over seas? If this is real and there is the Defence of Britian medal, there must be a CVSM medal and bar on the ribbon bar and medal bar

                              Comment

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