1st pattern denison smock with unusual features

[andrew b]

This one also turned up and I would say that the full zip construction is deffinately post war as it is nothing like the smocks that have been discussed here, I am sorry this is the only picture I have but you can clearly see it has just been cut down the middle as the 1/4 zip opening is still visible unlike all the above

[andrew b]

den

Just got some more close up pictures from the size 5 smock and the construction is almost identicle to the previous ones that have been discussed , there is a joint around the inside of the newey fasteners , the wind flap is identicle with correct material and same stitching and the finish on the front zip is the same ,
The debate wages on but now we have differant sizes , makers and types with exact features . It has been mentined by a member that a regulation could have been set up to convert them during war time , I definately dont think these are post war conversions , there are too many with ww2 features , if constructed post war WHY go the the lengths to use ww2 materials including same cotton etc

your views please

[andrew b]

den

front inner

[andrew b]

den

windflap

[skypilot]

My knowledge of Denisons is limited - more of an RAF type historically speaking. However, please bear with me......

Regarding the armpit labels, the first thought that leapt out to me was that they are modification/overhaul labels i.e. the smock has been returned to stores and deemed suitable for reuse (note all smocks shown are in pretty good condition). Said smocks are then inspected, minor repairs carried out and modifications as directed but current policy at the time, possibly at unit level. Labels then attached to show compliance to that reference, hence the random appearing letter and numbering - looks very likely to be a MOD state or similar.

I may well be way off the mark but thought I'd stick an opinion in.

I would also add that many producers of uniform used up old stocks of materials such as buttons, studs etc. way after they were deemed obselete - made economic sense and I seem to recall that it was acceptable to do so. Therefore, anomalies are always going to be found, but that does not automatically make them "suspect". The problem is that at the end of the day most of us are purists and generally seek out the "Holy Grail" conditioned items rather than one that does not conform. Remember the Windak smock not so long ago.....?

Simple fact is that when these garments were made and used, they were not done so with future collectors in mind!

Conclusion? Nice original smocks with wartime/early post war modifications, then used by a film prop company etc.

If you neeed any of them to have new homes I'm sure there will be takers aplenty!

[andrew b]

Den

Hi skypilot ,
thanks for the reply its always good to know someone is interested and reading the forum and putting views across, as to your thoughts on the labels been added when back in stores for repairs etc this could be true as far as the zip label is concerned , but for the labels under the arm pits , then no , the label is in the original stitching on the arm (previous photos) and I cannot see anyone completely undoing and rest itching an entire arm just to add a small label , these look like they were added in manufacture and with the stitching on and around the zip , leaves me to believe they are war time produced and I am trying to find evidence to support this but it's like a needle in a hay stack and doing it solo.
My smocks are open for anyone to inspect them if they wish too
Andy