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**DennyB** · 06-28-2007, 01:28 AM

Fiction vs Non-fiction

From what I understand, Saving Private Ryan was total fiction as far as the story, although it has to be the best D-Day scenes so far, while Thin Red Line was written by James Jones about his actual wartime experiences. Yet Thin Red Line doesn't get the rave reviews that SPR does. I may be a little prejudiced since James Jones lived a few miles from me. I still kick myself for not picking up a signed first edition copy of From Here To Eternity that was in a estate sale of his former next door neighbors.
I think that the first version of All Quiet on the Western Front was great. I heard that the uniforms were original and the extras were actual veterans. Erich Maria Remarque was an actual WW1 vet and drew from his experiences.
Die Brucke (The Bridge) was very good, I have been to the town where it was filmed. Cham (referred to as Chamstadt in the movie) and the bridge used in the movie was destroyed a few years after the film was made there but I spoke with a couple of people that remembered the movie being shot there. It looked as if all the equipment on the German side was original but the American tank was a mock-up.

**Mark McShane** · 06-28-2007, 07:10 AM

Two films that I think are both an excellent to watch and very authentic are
1. The Curel Sea
2. The Gift Horse

Both are about the RN, the Cruel Sea, though not based on real characters, portrayed scences that were played out countless times no doubt during the batttle of the Atlantic.
The Gift Horse is an excellent based on the true story and revolves around LtCdr Halden, a usr see for any naval or RN enthusiast.

What si so good about these films is that the ships are all real ships that would have been involved in the war. Many of the actors also served in the armed forces during the war, so they knew how to behave like military personnel, they could carry themselves only in the way someone trained at an RN establishment or a British army barracks could. They had the accents, the phrases, they are just great. The best examples of this are Jack Hawkins (The Cruel Sea) and Trevor Howard (The Gift Horse).

My thought on the best films anyway.

Mark

Regards,

Mark

**John R.** · 06-29-2007, 12:38 AM

Pursuit of the Graf Spee with real Salem class US heavy cruisers was a very good film--1957 and on DVD. Sink the Bismarck is not bad either. Enemy Below with Robert Mitchum, great and very authentic on WWII ASW tactics. He is the perfect Captain.

Caine Mutiny with Bogart, can't be beat.

Zulu and Zulu Dawn not bad. Charge of the Light Brigade, not the 30s one, but the one in the late 60s I think was quirky but good.

Burnt by the Sun, a Russian film about what happens to a WWII Soviet hero after the war is well done and accurate.

Patton's speach in Patton, what a scene.

John

**DonC** · 07-10-2007, 10:49 AM

I remember trying to rush mowing the lawn when I was little so I could get inside and watch Kelly's Heroes on TV pre-cable. I have always liked that movie; not for historical accuracy but because it was one of the first "war movies" I can remember seeing, and I have always like Clint Eastwood. I would point out that that was probably one of the earliest movies to use a mock-up of a Tiger tank instead of an M48 painted Panzer gray as they did in Battle of the Bulge - a movie I cannot stand to watch!

I would put Letters from Iwo Jima up as one of my favorites. I appreciated that it showed the brutality and the humanity of both sides. I don't collect Japanese or US items, so as far as authenticity I really can't say if it was one of the most accurate or not, but I was impressed with the mock-ups of the Chi-ha tanks on Iwo.

Don

**David S** · 07-10-2007, 04:00 PM

Realistic-
Das Boot
Saving Private Ryan (Battle scenes only, rest is worthless)
Sink the Bismarck
Breaker Morant
Stalingrad
The Bridge
Twelve O'Clock High
A Bridge too Far
Bataan
Battleground
The Cruel Sea
Stalag 17

Unrealistic
The Blue Max (great flying but uniforms and insignia are crap)
U-571
Pearl Harbor (movie took longer than the attack !!)
Enemy at the Gates (great opening but worthless)

I'll leave it there as I could go on, and on, and on

**Jody** · 07-10-2007, 06:29 PM

Movies

Originally posted by David S View Post

Realistic-
Das Boot
Saving Private Ryan (Battle scenes only, rest is worthless)
Sink the Bismarck
Breaker Morant
Stalingrad
The Bridge
Twelve O'Clock High
A Bridge too Far
Bataan
Battleground
The Cruel Sea
Stalag 17

Unrealistic
The Blue Max (great flying but uniforms and insignia are crap)
U-571
Pearl Harbor (movie took longer than the attack !!)
Enemy at the Gates (great opening but worthless)

I'll leave it there as I could go on, and on, and on

Hi David,
I have a minor disagreement on uniforms. I feel the uniforms in The Blue Max are far superior (yes, there are mistakes) to the KM uniforms in Sink the Bismarck. Look at the KM peak caps and the huge eagles on the uniforms, it looks like the same KM stuff used in the film The Incredible Mr. Limpet.

They could not get KM uniforms right in the 50's and 60's. Another good example of bad KM uniforms is The Enemy Below (I do like the movie) and even Admiral Ruge's uniform in The Desert Fox (terrible). The films The McKenzie Break started to get KM stuff correct, as well as Murphy's War (not too bad)and The Eagle Has Landed (Admiral Canaris). Nothing beats Das Boot for accuracy, in regards to KM stuff.

Regards,
Jody

**John R.** · 07-10-2007, 06:58 PM

More to my list of movies:

SAND PEBBLES--if you have not seen this, you should. I could not find much if anything wrong with the realism of this film. If this movie gets you interested, the non-fiction book Yangtze Patrol will make you happy too.

STAR OF AFRICA--about Hans-Joachim Marseille, 1957, using Spanish Air Force aircraft. Not bad.

**John R.** · 07-10-2007, 07:49 PM

Decision Before Dawn

Operation Daybreak (about the killing of Heydrich)

Tunes of Glory (which is one of my favorites of all time, post war story of a Scot Regiment back at its homebase faced with a new commanding officer)

The One Who Got Away (1957)

**Jody** · 07-10-2007, 09:36 PM

War Films

Originally posted by John Robinson View Post

Decision Before Dawn

Operation Daybreak (about the killing of Heydrich)

Tunes of Glory (which is one of my favorites of all time, post war story of a Scot Regiment back at its homebase faced with a new commanding officer)

The One Who Got Away (1957)

Hi John,
I am a big fan of Richard Basehart and I also like Decision Before Dawn. I also love Operation Daybreak (you gotta love the intro), but I bet I have not seen that film in over 20 years. Some of these films rarely get repeated anymore.

Here are clips from Operation Daybreak that someone added music to (the song Invincible). That being said it shows the some of the cool intro with scenes of a KM dager and German awards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAJWjUKtPg

Regards,
Jody

**Napalm** · 07-11-2007, 03:39 PM

Has anybody mentioned 'The most Authentic haircut' yet? and the last battle scene's in SPR is rubbish As soon as the plane appears all the lads put their hands up and surrender? C'mon...

**John R.** · 07-11-2007, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Napalm View Post

Has anybody mentioned 'The most Authentic haircut' yet? and the last battle scene's in SPR is rubbish As soon as the plane appears all the lads put their hands up and surrender? C'mon...

Actually, you hit on something that I notice all the time--even if the uniform might be close--the haircuts. It looks like in most movies, especially US ones, that this simple detail is nearly always overlooked.

Look at the MASH series which to me was crap. This was the Korean War and even civilians had short hair then. I also like it when the ribbons are on the wrong side of the uniform. Or when all the officers are morons getting in the way of the poor private. Even what I think of as a fairly good film, "The Eagle has Landed" had an idiotic performance in the role of the US Ranger Colonel getting all his men killed by the Luftwaffe men while driving around in a jeep when not strutting around like he had a rifle up his ass. Too bad since I think Caine did a good job as the German officer and I liked the S-boat scenes quite a bit too.

Something about US film makers that have to portray officers as fools--another was the Clint Eastwood film where he was the highly decorated Marine and his officer dressed him down. No way in real life. You must be kidding me.

But the best ribbon story has to be James Coburn in the flick "In like Flint" or something like that, a James Bond takeoff, where he shoots an army guard. The horrified military brass wants to know why he did that and demand an explanation. He says, "Did you see that Battle of the Bulge ribbon on his uniform" and they nod, and he then says, "There never was a Battle of the Bulge ribbon, so he must have been an enemy agent."

And so it goes. John

**David S** · 07-11-2007, 05:15 PM

I have a minor disagreement on uniforms. I feel the uniforms in The Blue Max are far superior (yes, there are mistakes) to the KM uniforms in Sink the Bismarck. Look at the KM peak caps and the huge eagles on the uniforms, it looks like the same KM stuff used in the film The Incredible Mr. Limpet.

Mea Culpa !

In the Blue Max three things bother me. Stachel's uniform in the trenches in the opening scenes. The ribbon bar on James Mason has a Hindenburg Cross. And last but most certainly not least the box that contains the PLM when awarded to Stachel.

In putting Sink The Bismarck on the list I totally forgot about the big eagles.

They were big eagles but not as big as on Combat !

**John R.** · 07-11-2007, 05:34 PM

As long as Ursula Andress was in it, all I know is George Peppard won more than a medal.

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**sturmann** · 07-12-2007, 10:38 AM

Salut,

IMO & without a shadow of a doubt, by far the most realistic war film ever ever made is "317 Section" made in 1965 by Pierre Schoendoerffer.

It's the story of 4 French white officer/NCA and their squad of suppletive troops in Laos retreating towards friendly lines through Vi******234;t Minh (VC) infested territory at the time of the fall of Dien-Bien-Phu in 1954.

http://www.allocine.fr/film/galeriev...film=5354.html

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058863/

All uniforms + equipment + weapons are 100 % authentic - But more to the point Schoendoerffer, himself a army cameraman in Indochina from 52 to 54 and POW at DB-Phu , put on the screen what he had witness & lived throught - that makes all the difference with directors that have not experienced first hand their story.

Difficult to talk about war film whithout having seen 317e Section , it realy makes "Band of Brothers" looks like a musical for school-girls

yves

**David S** · 07-12-2007, 01:08 PM

Along those same lines is A Yank in Vietnam (1964) directed by and starring Marshall Thompson. Shot entirely in Vietnam with local actors and actresses.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058761/

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