Craig Gottlieb & "Nazi War Diggers"

[PAB]

They sell them on line for that as well. Anyway, in plain English the part of the skull that is missing often falls or breaks off, the indentation around the ear area looks normal. A crushing blow will fracture the skull and is usually obvious.

A blunt force blow from something like a a rifle butt would normally look something like this-

What about the loss of most of the dentition. For instance when you loose a tooth/teeth and there is the resulting resorption of the bone. In this case it seems the teeth were lost a long time before the individual lost there life. You can see the amount of bone loss evident in the mandible (Lower Jaw) then even I, not being a trained pathologist could assume this person was not in there twilight years, well past the bloom of youth. And older than a regular or conscript. But it is just an hypothesis. I do have a medical background with some letters after my name though when I studied it was mostly without fee's in the UK.

[Johnny R]

Like Jean-Loup noted the bone actually has healed after the tooth loss. They generally indicates someone in advance years but many people in that time period lost their teeth much earlier in life then we do now with even minimal dental care. That can be caused by something also called Osteonecrosis, which can result for poor nutrition and lack of dental hygiene as well as alcohol abuse and smoking etc. The healing results most often after tooth loss in elderly adults and is generally an indication of older age.

To be honest, without better pictures it is hard to tell what is going on. Teeth and tooth wear, the proportions of the skull and other features are used to determine age.

[tanker]

I think this has gotten way off track.
Please start a different thread to discuss forensics. Thanks, Ron

[Johnny R]

Why? Negligence beyond who is involved is a key issue. I have met, talked to, dealt with him on the forum and certainly do not like Craig. That said if but if Mickey Mouse did this sort of stuff I would, and have objected to it vocally and with legislation in the US been involved against it for years.

Why do you think from the get go, the show was not scheduled to be aired in the US?

This is not about CG, it is way way beyond that but the fact he is involved is predictable.

Forensics is a major part of this- and the inability of the individuals involved to conduct anything close to professional work is a major problem and why it was canceled from the professional community.

The WA is a tiny part of this if any to be honest. As an archaeologist, we were pressuring them long before about shows like this and most of my peers have no idea who CG is. There is nothing directed at him as CG and his previous actions etc. from a professional archaeologist view point. I am a collector but that is only happenstance. Here, only his behavior and that of others as well as the producers.

[Hoss]

Agree Johnny carry on.

Zygomatichoss

[tanker]

I believe discussing the anatomy and forenics is differenct than discussing why CG is revolting in his latest publicity stunt. But hey, I am just a reading member, so post what you want. Just was sharing my opinion. Ron

Why? Negligence beyond who is involved is a key issue. I have met, talked to, dealt with him on the forum and certainly do not like Craig. That said if but if Mickey Mouse did this sort of stuff I would, and have objected to it vocally and with legislation in the US been involved against it for years.

Why do you think from the get go, the show was not scheduled to be aired in the US?

This is not about CG, it is way way beyond that but the fact he is involved is predictable.

Forensics is a major part of this- and the inability of the individuals involved to conduct anything close to professional work is a major problem and why it was canceled from the professional community.

The WA is a tiny part of this if any to be honest. As an archaeologist, we were pressuring them long before about shows like this and most of my peers have no idea who CG is. There is nothing directed at him as CG and his previous actions etc. from a professional archaeologist view point. I am a collector but that is only happenstance. Here, only his behavior and that of others as well as the producers.

[Jean-Loup]

Eldenwaf, there is no crushing blow on that skull, and I agree with all Johnny has said on the topic.
I am not a dentist, but it is no secret that in the past, and even nowadays, some people can loose a lot of their teeth at a relatively young age. To be honnest though, it is surprising to see a soldier's skull semingly lacking so many of his teeth... but there were surely many men like this is both the German and Russian armies.
There is no point of doing guess work however. The answer to the questions regarding this skull were in the grave, so only those who did the excavation can perhaps answer them... Not likely considering that they couldnt recognise a femur, the second most characteristic human bone after the skull.

JL

[Thorsten B.]

...CG is revolting in his latest publicity stunt.

Ron, do tell.

[tanker]

I think after 11 pages, it is obvious. Ron

Ron, do tell.

[Kelly w]

Interesting reading carry on + 1,

[pbuchh7715]

Greetings,

I've been following this thread from start to finish. At first, it was due to a macabre interest in reading what bile-filled rants against CG would be posted that would make me chuckle. I don't have anything against the man personally but I am well aware of his history and it makes me glad I'm not him. But then my interest changed.

I would agree with Ron that this thread, to a point, has morphed. But in an educational way and I'm in awe of what some folks are bringing to the table in the form of thought provoking and intelligent writings. While I understand the discussion of whom the skull "belonged" (whether geriatric or youth) sort of deviates from the argument of sound archeology ethics, morality, etc, etc, I find it refreshing that those who are trained in specific fields are putting to rest the armchair paleontologists assertions that it was the skull of Jo Jo the dog-faced boy or a leprechaun. I know that's not what was written but....educated discussion and explanation makes us all a little smarter and elevates us from a drunken argument at the tavern over who is the best local sports team.

Most importantly is how the point has been driven home that this is not about specific individuals but negligent, irresponsible and financial gain driven acts that soil the reputation of legitimate fields of study and (if I may) our humble hobby. Not to steal thunder from my esteemed colleague in Sparta but this was something simply wrong that should have been aborted in conception. My hat is off and proud of all of those who spoke out against this for the right reasons.

Best,

Peter

[eldenwaff]

I think this has gotten way off track.
Please start a different thread to discuss forensics. Thanks, Ron

How discussing the dug skull Craig is fondling in a thread titled "Craig Gottlieb & Nazi War Diggers " is way off track is beyond me ,,, You want to just stick with straight bashing or what ? Perhaps you can just skip by the more technical stuff, no one is forcing you to read anything.

[tanker]

Whoa! slow down and take a breath! I didn't say don't discuss it, just merely said start a different thread. Don't jump on me for an opinion. Ron

How discussing the dug skull Craig is fondling in a thread titled "Craig Gottlieb & Nazi War Diggers " is way off track is beyond me ,,, You want to just stick with straight bashing or what ? Perhaps you can just skip by the more technical stuff, no one is forcing you to read anything.

[eldenwaff]

Whoa! slow down and take a breath! I didn't say don't discuss it, just merely said start a different thread. Don't jump on me for an opinion. Ron

Sorry man, didn't mean to jump at you throat or anything.
Hard to see starting a dedicated " Craig Gottlieb Skull" thread, I guess that would be a decision for mods if necessary.

[tanker]

No problem. Ron