Dr. Mengele Passport Found

[11C]

"The IRS could answer that for you as passports fall under their control.....BINGO, maybe it time for the IRS to investigate the transfer of a certain phony passport. They will at least follow the money trail. I'm sure Craig would welcome an audit of his business. "

No. As I understand once a passport has been canceled by the country of origin, it is no longer under the jurisdiction of the issuing body; it now belongs as personal property, to the person to whom it was originally issued.
And the IRS is an American ministry and the document in question is “purported” to be Italian. And no one has used the document to entre into the United State illegally. So I do not think that the IRS would have an interest, but then again I could be wrong in that assumption, I have little or no knowledge of the American legal system.


"BTW - this place cleared out like Typhoid Mary was serving dinner!"


What's on the menue?<O</O<!-- / message -->

I think they would still have an interest in Craig Gottleib's business. Too bad the passport probably won't take them there. Is there an IRS agent in here? Just checking......

[Belten]

For the record, the image of Mengele on the "passport" is in the public domain. Any work (photograph, artwork, etc.) created in Argentina at least 25 years ago and published at least 20 years ago automatically becomes a public domain work. The photograph in question was taken in 1956 and published at least as early as 1985, so it is free for anyone to use at any time for any reason. Obviously, even if that were not the case, it wouldn't affect the sale of it, because lots of copyrighted images are sold every day by people who do not own the copyright.

The next thing to consider is the image of Gottlieb used on the Wikipedia page. If the passport photo were still under copyright protection, the photo of him holding it would not be allowed under Wikipedia rules, but seeing as how the photographer (identified on a California newspaper website as a Mr. Jared Nelson) released the entire image into the public domain, and the photo on the passport itself is in the public domain as well, there should be no problem with that particular image being used on the Wikipedia page.

[alexanderautogr]

The next thing to consider is the image of Gottlieb used on the Wikipedia page. If the passport photo were still under copyright protection, the photo of him holding it would not be allowed under Wikipedia rules, but seeing as how the photographer (identified on a California newspaper website as a Mr. Jared Nelson) released the entire image into the public domain, and the photo on the passport itself is in the public domain as well, there should be no problem with that particular image being used on the Wikipedia page.

Of course, if a single news source were to declare or even insinuate that the passport was a (recent) fake, then that citation could be placed, properly footnoted, on Mr. Gottlieb's page, correct?

[Belten]

Of course, if a single news source were to declare or even insinuate that the passport was a (recent) fake, then that citation could be placed, properly footnoted, on Mr. Gottlieb's page, correct?

If you can find a reliable news source that says that, it could probably be added, keeping in mind that the article is about Craig Gottlieb and not the Mengele passport itself. I've already cleaned up the article a bit to reflect the fact that Gottlieb believes (according to the NBC News website) that is Mengele's passport, not that is unequivocally Mengele's passport.

We all know it's a lousy fake, but BLPs (biographies of living persons) on Wikipedia are one of the most contentious areas, and care has to be taken to not introduce a negative slant or generally irrelevant information. That said, a one sentence refute of the authenticity of the passport should be ok, as long as it's from a reliable source, such as a newspaper or periodical. The source need not be online; as long as it's properly footnoted and reliable, it is taken on good faith.

[Historyisme]

I kind of thought Craig was a joke when I heard he was riding a Segway around a military show. What a slap in the face to those who have lost limbs in combat and here's him scooting around clipping peoples ankles in his Segway.

Anyway, after reading this thread I know who the real "experts" are. It would be nice if Craig could reply, but I doubt he will even read the thread. Probably too busy trying to trick some other collector out of a TK ring.

I don't like talking bad about people, but Gottlieb makes the forum and collectors in general look bad. And his constant arrogance and trickery is horrible. He isn't in it for the history, but for the money and his face in as many pictures and tv screens as he can.

Cheers, Pat

P.s. The Jewish remark is also pretty pathetic. People here really need to cop on.

[Hoss]

Bill
Was thinking maybe it IS time to close this thread do other members feel the same??
I'm sure it'll be covered in other areas before members start getting booted out... it hurts believe me.

Eric

[tanker]

For me, I think closing it may not be a good idea. I think if it is not continued and here is where I ask members to please stick to the original topic without wandering to foolish/comical picture postings, it will be "swept under the rug" and forgotten. As time goes by, if it is not revived, the continued behavior will continue. Just my thoughts on it. Ron

[11C]

Ok Sebastian give us your take on all this. If you really do call the shots around here..............ALL of us would like to know your decision with regard to CG. The word is that you over-rulled your Moderators in favor of your "friend" Craig in the past. You have that right if in fact you are the owner, but few believe that you are simply little more than a puppet to Craig and his friends. What say you sir?

You are surely aware of how CG's reputation is affecting the credibility of this site...

http://cache.nebula.phx3.secureserve...FlMzhkMmU6Ojo6

Why do you insist in allowing his reputation to bring down the forum?

[alexanderautogr]

Hahahahaha!!!!!! My old pal, Peter Stahl/A. D. Royster/Hollingsworth G. Redneck III/Psycho D. Babble has, like Lazarus, arisen from the dead!! Last time I corresponded with him I told him how much I was enjoying crabbing on the Chesapeake Bay.

I'm not sure what "co-religionist" means, but I'm not sure my Christianity/agnosticism has much to do with Craig's whatever. But Stahl's now well over 80 and creeping senility is probably gaining on him. And it's really irrelevant anyway, as are most of his rants. But they do make for good toilet reading!

Nonetheless, 11C may have a valid point. If, and only if, the great preponderance of solid evidence of consistent unethical and/or grossly unprofessional activity by Craig is clearly evident, Mr. Bianchi must act swiftly and decisively or else have his board face public criticism, if not perhaps disgrace and ridicule. A review of three other internet forums unfortunately does not cast Craig in a favorable light, and perhaps that should also be taken under consideration.

On the other hand, a rush to judgement would do a great disservice and much harm to one who is considered by many to be an industry professional.

Personally, I have made up my own mind. I urge Mr. Bianchi to make a decision one way or another, post his reasoning, and let the members choose for themselves their next actions.

[99notout]

The silence from Mr Gottlieb is deafening, and it speaks volumes

[11C]

The silence from Mr Gottlieb is deafening, and it speaks volumes

Oh he'll be in as soon Sebastian clears him for landing. The less he says the better for Bianchi's damage control at this point. He probably be told to shut up by the "boss" or whoever wears the diapers..........uh, pants rather.

[Wagriff]

Gottleib disgraces himself and the entire hobby-not to mention this Forum-with these absurd "discoveries". His posturing on phony TV shows and going to Russia to pose with Real Diggers and ride on the coat tails of their legitimate work just for a photo op-the endless "Super Star" discoveries like some real life Indiana Jones...this has gotten to a ridiculous stage and now this latest dog and pony show with this ludicrous "Mengele passport". What does it need to be considered "Enough!"? It makes a person shudder to think of what next he will come up with.

[Nordmark]

You just have to repeat it over and over again, until the fairytale comes true. "Oh, it was on tv", "I heard there was this big article in the newspaper", "I just looked this up on Wikipedia".

And then, after some time, the piece is ready to be delivered.

[wolfslair]

Fuß im Mund Dummheit.
You know what it means CG

[Bono]

The silence from Mr Gottlieb is deafening, and it speaks volumes

+1

I think that all story about passport is unreal!

Regards, Bono