Dr. Mengele Passport Found

[Tora_Tora_Tora!]

I repeat...there is too much "confusion" on the page where the photo is placed....at first I would check if something is behind the two stamps of "Marca da Bollo". It seems that all was done to cover something or to hidden something.....

@ Craig..... Was it inspected under the UV light?

[KLMKsunbunny]

Why would Hitler need a passport?

For escaping to South America after the war...

[Craig Gottlieb]

There is a known counterfeit done during the war by one of the Allied intelligence services, and they even went so far to mark his passport with a "J" for Jewish. I am not sure why they made it, but apparently, they did. I had Hitler's very first DAP Identity Card ...



Notice that "Hitler" is spelled with two "t"s.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Obviously this one from Getty-Images is a fake then? Which one is the self-authenticating on? Confusion reigns! Way too many passports, way too many membershipo cards!

[Chris Boonzaier]

silly question... but do Germans user " 's" as in "Hitler's" ?

[Craig Gottlieb]

No, the Getty image is derived from the original, which I had. There is an acknowledged reason that their card did not show the split, but I don't recall it. It was in a museum DURING the war, where it was pictured as it exists today - cut in half. Great story behind it, and wonderful provenance ... a known piece for many decades (as stated, during the TR period, and then in 1945, when it appeared in a newspaper article in the hands of the officer who returned with it). My memory is foggy on the details, but I'll try to do an article on it.

[Chris Boonzaier]

There are a few visable differences though?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Just at first glance... the "t" in Hittler being higher than the dot on the "i" in the one, but not in the other

1920 touching the line in the one, but not on the other

A concave bottom stoke to the H in Herrn on the one, while it is convex on the other....

It is possible Getty did some work on the pic to improve the image of course... would not be unknown....hard to say from the photos.

[Killerbee]

Hitler's number was 555...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hitler's number was 555...

Which kinda points to Getty doing prehistoric Photoshop... or whatever they had back them... maybe they enhanced things to make it stand out better for photos?

[Tony K]

x

[Johnny R]

Man Craig, does you brain hurt?

[alexanderautogr]

Just at first glance... the "t" in Hittler being higher than the dot on the "i" in the one, but not in the other

1920 touching the line in the one, but not on the other

A concave bottom stoke to the H in Herrn on the one, while it is convex on the other....

It is possible Getty did some work on the pic to improve the image of course... would not be unknown....hard to say from the photos.

It's clearly the same document, but the image has been "adjusted" by Getty for the sake of consistency. I should add that someone "sold" Getty the image, and makes a profit every time the image is used. I say this only for accuracy. I certainly hope that the "Mengele passport's" image has not yet been sold, especially in the same manner in which its story has been sold.

BTW, Craig, you mentioned that I had suggested you shred the Himmler schoolbook (as you correctly recalled). It was only by chance that after a LOT of work on my part that I located an obscure auction result with similar handwriting. AND, I may add, you sent me the original to examine and compare with the exemplar published. That was certainly not an exhaustive examination, and all it did was indicate that the piece may NOT have been a fake, not that it was 100% genuine. The preponderance of evidence tilted toward it being genuine.

That's not the case this time around. The vast majority of the evidence points to the passport being a fake, and probably a recent one. You steadfastedly refuse to post a single image of the document in question, or even the ancillary documents which accompany it. You refuse to disclose what, if any, tests or examinations have been undertaken, nor who has examined it, and you will not even confidentially disclose the seller...who is almost certainly a purveyor of fakes, if not the forger himself. You complain about a public lynching and cite all of the "bad" material you have rightly or wrongly been accused of selling, yet in this instance you again allow your detractors to easily pillory you. Why? Because you advertise a great piece, without the provenance and evidence to back it up in advance.

Meantime, as I have stated repeatedly, because of apparent inaction in authenticating or refuting the piece, the door remains open for the seller, if he's the forger, to continue to bamboozle the public...This leads me to ask:

Just what exactly is your agenda?

I have been rough on you. And I am admittedly a competitor. And like you, I also have, and will, take my knocks the next time I offer something that's perceived as "bad". The difference I think is that I readily admit when I've been duped, immediately pull the piece, and go after the perpetrator with a vengeance - right away. I've jailed three or four crooks so far, and two more are on the burner. Fraudsters not only hurt the buyer, they hurt the entire industry.

[Killerbee]

The truth will prevail and Craig is surely going afther the truth. Also, I am sure this entry in Wikipedia under "Josef Mengele" which I found looking for other data:

"In January 2014, the Italian passport Mengele used to flee Europe was purchased by Pawn Stars expert Craig Gottlieb, along with other documents, two of which bear his photograph.[102] The passport was used by Mengele to escape to Argentina under the false name Helmuth Gregor in 1949."

and this Wikipedia entry one under Craig Gottlieb:

"In January 2014, Gottlieb uncovered the Italian passport of Josef Mengele. The document, used by the notorious "Angel of Death" to escape justice and flee to Argentina in 1949, was uncovered by Gottlieb through a contact in Buenos Aires.[4]" (with picture holding the fake passport)

will be corrected, maybe even right now since it is plain wrong by admittance of Craig. Sometimes one really wonders how fast Wikipedia is and who is putting the news up instantly!

So much deflection now going on in this thread. Deflection is used when there is no longer a case to support a subject matter.... in this case this passport.

@ Craig:

My big question to you is how can you go to any news organization and then post these public statements before you are actually 100% sure that you have overwhelming proof that this passport is authentic? Aren't these statements amazingly premature? Aren't you publicly exposing yourself to negative publicity? Negative publicity that may harm the "Pawn Stars" brand? Are you in breach? Especially now that there are gleaming questions about the passport's authenticity by very experienced experts in the field? What news organization will ever trust you now? You should not allow relentless self promotion put you in a poor professional position. I'm sure that this is not the kind of fame you were seeking. You need to take a different professional path of correction and closure, because it now looks like dragging this matter out publically (or as you put it, to notify the "world") as long as you can to milk the publicity out of it, regardless of the outcome, comes across extremely narcissistic or even desperate.

A quote by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:

"The talent of success is nothing more than doing what you can do well, and doing well whatever you do without thought of fame. If it comes at all it will come because it is deserved, not because it is sought after."

You are in the driver's seat... you have a few choices on how to drive down that self promotion road. Make it about the item's history and not about the one who happens to be holding it. You may see it differently, but your actions betray you. Don't try to be "Indiana Jones" like your selfies want to advertise... because it is not working. Time to drive in a different publicity direction because this will only end up with more pie in your face... not something you would want and not something the directors of Pawn Star would want either.

Jim

[Larry Davis]

A very good image of the fake Hitler passport. 'Click' on the partial image to go to the full view of the document.

Do try out the zoom controls.


https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...=46&sequence=1