Dr. Mengele Passport Found

[Tora_Tora_Tora!]

.... and bears an official "Passaporti" hand stamp. That's not to say that foreign-issued passports weren't created in a different manner, but...

Ditto!! And please take a look too the vivid ink of the stamp of the supposed Mengele passport....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is one thing that bothers me.... who would cancel a fake passport?

And if Mengele was on the lam with fake Italian docs... isnt an Italian embassy the last place he would turn up with those docs?

And if he was on the lam with original docs... the embassy wouls STILL be the last place he would show his face...

So who would cancel it... and why?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Unless of course it was someone elses doc, and was officially cancelled... and then had mengeles photo added....

[Craig Gottlieb]

This shows that passports were issued regionally, and varied from province to province. Anyway, I won't be conducting "live research" on this forum, but will reveal my findings when I am done. As I said before, not only the result, but the process in this case, is going to be fully documented, whatever the outcome. I hope you all can respect that, and respect my interest in learning every fact possible about this artifact, whatever the outcome. As I have always stated, this is not about profit for me, but about learning the truth about an incredible chapter in our past.

[Robert H]

If EVERYTHING was authentic, what a boring job I'd have...everybody could be an expert.

WoW, and that says someone who runs a business.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Craig,

thank for joining in and helping to find out everything that can be found out. I am sure you are as eager as anybody here to do so and also commited to inform the San Diego newspaper and TV station about the final results.

Could you tell us whether the cover of the passport in question is blank or is the gold imprint just faded? A scan would be nice! And, please, how many pages does the "Mengele" passport have?

Dietrich

[Craig Gottlieb]

Dietrich, I'm actually not "joining in" - I am leading the process, just not here on the forum. And, trust me, I have a much bigger story to break if it turns out to be a post-Mengele forgery (I personally hope it is not, and is a genuine Mengele article, because it will make a great addition to the public body of knowledge of this terrible person). To that point, I have a much bigger news source waiting to report on the conclusions, which is why I'm not really in a position to share everything here. I will tell you, since you asked, that the cover is faded, and most of the gold is not present (though some is). I do promise to reveal all of my findings in due course.

[Chris Boonzaier]

"To that point, I have a much bigger news source waiting to report on the conclusions, which is why I'm not really in a position to share everything here."

So alexander killed the bear, and you intend to parade its head around as your kill?

[Craig Gottlieb]

As predicted, smarmy, inflammatory commentary like that one, are allowed to sneak in and pollute what could be a good thread. Your comment is illustrative why I am NOT "doing" the research here. People addicted the to false narrative that I am somehow a bad person, a crook, an idiot, a charlitan, or whatever ... will write snide and unproductive comments like that, and make honest research impossible. This isn't the Roman Colosseum, and I'm not foolish enough to dive in with a cardboard sword, and think I'm properly equipped. On this forum, it seems like character assassination innuendo is fair sport, and it's good enough for the voyeurs on the sidelines, that I have made 5 or 10 mistakes in my thousands of artifacts sold, to constantly beat a very tiny drum as loudly as they can.

"But guys," he says ... Gottlieb tried to sell a bad helmet once." Really? One helmet, which was withdrawn as soon as it was questioned, among hundreds I have sold? Give me a break. "Wait a minute, what about the Birdshead dagger!!! He's obviously crooked." You mean the one that I advertised as restored, and that had an expertise written by my COMPETITOR Tom Wittmann? "Wait, the Frank Ring!!!" Yep, the one I never owned, never had a financial interest in, but simply believed was original (one opinion). That about covers 1/2 of the "controversy" surrounding me. Please ... don't let facts get in the way of a good show.

Congrats, those few who insist on using WAF as their sport for bullying. You've turned this thread into one about ME and not about the artifact. Great scholarship.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am sorry you see it that way, it was a natural question....

You had said

"“People asked me how I know when something’s real, and I have a hard time explaining it. I just know. People forge documents all the time, but over the years I’ve learned how to look at the paper, the inks, the printing styles ... This was a self-authenticating artifact.”"

Then Alexander said

"Wait, this thing is Bogus"

Then you said

"I have a huge show lined up to announce the findings..."

Alexander did some research, and I think forum members were able to add some thoughts that were relevant and helped his findings further....

I am just wondering what the advantages are of conducting research removed from critique?

Do music groups refrain from releasing albums because the critics are stupid, then after 10 years of not releasing albums they finally release their greatest hits?

Whatever... as long as you do the research, I am interested in the results.

[Chris Boonzaier]

On this forum, it seems like character assassination innuendo is fair sport, and it's good enough for the voyeurs on the sidelines, that I have made 5 or 10 mistakes in my thousands of artifacts sold, to constantly beat a very tiny drum as loudly as they can.

.

Sorry, was going to drop out and wait for your results.... but the above... I think EVERYONE has stuck to the topic of the passport?

The above is a bit like playing the "they are all out to get me" card...

You put it up... it evoked discussion... the discussion went in the wrong direction... then you do a "bob and weave" and say its all personal.

Stand your man and debate the item... if you duck and run it is sure people will jeer... You were in the army, you know you can only defend when you face the challenge... tossing smoke and running will only mean they will come after you (with questions)

[CPB]

Christ, you guys give Craig a hard time.

I couldn't care less whether the passport is real or not. But the journey of finding out is interesting enough right now. Let's enjoy the discussion, facts and opportunity to frickin' learn something - rather than continually throwing rocks at him. And frankly scaring people away from this forum which is like a viper's nest at the best of times.

I'm surprised Craig even bothers to post up these pieces, given the reception he gets. And I, for one, enjoy seeing what he's working on and what turns up at his store. Good, bad or whatever.

[compressore]

Ownership

Hi,

just some thougts of ownership when the passport turns out to be good....in Germany as in many other countries, a passport is always the property of the issuing government. The person is only the bearer but not the owner.
So maybe the Italian government is still the owner and could claim rights to it ?

Regards
Christian

[Dietrich Maerz]

The truth will prevail and Craig is surely going afther the truth. Also, I am sure this entry in Wikipedia under "Josef Mengele" which I found looking for other data:

"In January 2014, the Italian passport Mengele used to flee Europe was purchased by Pawn Stars expert Craig Gottlieb, along with other documents, two of which bear his photograph.[102] The passport was used by Mengele to escape to Argentina under the false name Helmuth Gregor in 1949."

and this Wikipedia entry one under Craig Gottlieb:

"In January 2014, Gottlieb uncovered the Italian passport of Josef Mengele. The document, used by the notorious "Angel of Death" to escape justice and flee to Argentina in 1949, was uncovered by Gottlieb through a contact in Buenos Aires.[4]" (with picture holding the fake passport)

will be corrected, maybe even right now since it is plain wrong by admittance of Craig. Sometimes one really wonders how fast Wikipedia is and who is putting the news up instantly!

[jacquesf]

"I'm surprised Craig even bothers to post up these pieces, given the reception he gets. And I, for one, enjoy seeing what he's working on and what turns up at his store. Good, bad or whatever."

I am not. He loves the attention and publicity. J