Dr. Mengele Passport Found

[PANZER332]

I don't really care about who owns it or the circumstances it was acquired under. I do agree it belongs in a museum. Owning something that belonged to that beast and having it in my collection would give me the creeps! Every time I looked at it I would have visions of young children being tortured.
Jim

Dr. Mengele did not arrive at Auschwitz until May 23, 1943 after being wounded in Russia and being given the choice of going back to the Eastern Front or serving in a concentration camp system,Nevertheless, the critical reader, particularly one with some knowledge of Auschwitz, will have more a few doubts as to the accuracy of the Mengele Myth ..

[Obersalzberg]

Dr. Mengele did not arrive at Auschwitz until May 23, 1943 after being wounded in Russia and being given the choice of going back to the Eastern Front or serving in a concentration camp system,Nevertheless, the critical reader, particularly one with some knowledge of Auschwitz, will have more a few doubts as to the accuracy of the Mengele Myth ..

Very true......

The boys from brazil etc...... did nothing but entertain... lew grade production. Jewish of course.

[johnm50]

Thanks Craig.

[Johnny R]

I do not hate you Craig. That said I find you very entertaining and am always amazed by some of your assertions and claims.

I would first have the document authenticated by a professional and someone very familiar with Italian passports/documents of the time period. There should also be period documentation of the passport in other files and perhaps a passport number somewhere in Italy etc.

For the potential value of this document it, to me it is self-evident that it is possible that someone faked it. My first question would be if the photo used in the passport has ever been published and described as being used somewhere else.

Just my thoughts before I would have called the media but they do not care if it is real either, they just want a story and always will make someone look silly with the quotes they use.

[Craig Gottlieb]

<script type="text/javascript" charset="UTF-8" src="http://www.nbcsandiego.com/portableplayer/?cmsID=241998231&videoID=lwxMDIzOUjxY&origin=nbcsa ndiego.com&sec=news&subsec=local&width=600&height= 360"></script>

Getting a bit more attention now.

[Craig Gottlieb]

I open all investigations of the passport. It's already been looked at by other experts, but whether you like it or not, I know my stuff with respect to documents, and given the provenance that comes with it, I know it's real. Anyway ... the photo on the passport was taken in Genoa or somewhere in Europe. The photos taken a little while later, which appear on the police documents, were taken in Argentina. Of interest, it has come to my attention that the document hoard was featured in an Argentinian magazine many years ago, but nobody really paid attention to it. That is, until now. Anyway, in the short-term, I'm going to have images reproduced in larger format for museum use, until a suitable home is found for it.

[Johnny R]

Well that is great that you are an expert on mid-20th century Italian government documents. Another feather in your hat. Congratulations.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Sorry, but you over-simplify things. Of course, I spoke at length with the staff at the archive department of the Italian embassy about the particulars of the document itself, and they were quite helpful. Part of being a competent researcher is being well-connected and knowing who to ask about things. Thankfully, my public work has opened doors for me, and in this case, the Italian Embassy was one of those places.

As for paper, there are certain universal characteristics of paper, photos and inks that cross international and cultural boundaries. This is stuff that any dealer, historian, researcher or archivist with experience knows. You may not have the experience to know these things, but it's not hard to learn, and I encourage you to do so. Invest in a decent jeweler's microscope, and study old material, and you'll be surprised what you will learn. Of course, there are always nuances.

For example, forgers who forge "old documents" often use old paper and old inks, but there is a telltale "feathering" that results due to the loosening of the paper fibers, when the old ink touches the old paper. There are ways that forgers have found of going around this, but you can spot those techniques with experience.

[Johnny R]

Thanks for the additional information, now you are simplifying things. I am a scientist as well as a professional archaeologist/historian and work authenticating prehistoric/historic textiles, ceramics, wood, and stone artifacts etc. I am very familiar the things you are describing and that is why I suggested that you move beyond "speaking for itself". I am happy you are following the trail of crumbs back to where it supposedly came from. More empirical data is always better than assumptions. Good luck, I will know who to talk to if I ever come across late 20th Century Italian passports.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Then you know that your sarcasm about me being an "expert in 20th century italian documents" is misplaced, mean-spirited, and so typical of some people here for whom drama and bickering is an unwelcome and increasingly tiresome sport. Why don't you say something positive about HISTORY here? Go ahead, give it a try. I am not doing history for YOUR sake, Johnny ... your sense of entitlement and expectation is misplaced and unwelcome. I've spent 3 months researching this piece, and it was not for your benefit.

[Johnny R]

Craig, you assert that you are an expert in not only these types of documents but many many other areas of collecting and weapons etc. All I did was question why you think this is original other than this document apparently "talking" to you. I will not offer any misplaced advice on anything you post any more. Like the "Hitler Desk" etc. any objective questions are shot down so it is waste of time.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Craig, you assert that you are an expert in not only these types of documents but many many other areas of collecting and weapons etc.

Jonny,

maybe it is just a little bit of "poetic license".

Dietrich

[BrianK]

What's the asking price?

[scotty1418]

Cool!

I would have been nervous about that reporter grabbing the documents like she does...

Bringing it to the SOS for display like the desk set?

[Sepp45]

Another interesting doc of Mengele is the one issued by the Red Cross.