Military group wants Nazi gravestones changed

[Lloyd I.]

Hi Lloyd and thanks for posting pics in response to my question, so I know I have seen wartime photos of graves bearing plenty of runic and political symbolism, it looked like many were wooden, maybe on the fronts they were temporary or made from what they could... but your 2 photos show something very different than the ones here in the USA (besides the obvious fact that they are in German..) there are no swastikas or runes. I am seeing an iron cross without a swastika and a helmet without swastika or runes, and the inscriptions are pretty standard “death card” fare that exist as largely apolitical statements of life, service, and death. When do you think these may have been made and/or placed?

With the decree of forbidden symbols you are not going to see Lebensrune-Todesrune or Swastikas even on wartime graves in Germany. The SS Schutzstaffel siegrune does not preceed a fallen soldiers name rather just a rank such as Oscha or similar and many times the Army equivalent of that rank is given versus the SS rank.

You will consistently find the Iron Cross carved such as those on the Denkmal in my home town, first 2 pictures. The Swastika was likely painted over on Soldat Hans Kürzinger's wartime marker which is original and actually located behind the Kürzinger family gravestone (tombstone). Some of the others graves of fallen still exhibit their pictures. Here is another showing the Iron Cross for Johann Baptist who died at wars end in service. The front side of the family gravestone however does not bear an Iron Cross. This to me has always been interesting.

The last picture shows a wartime memorial, Gedächtnis at the old Rathaus, in Amberg. Amberg is where my Opa's Kaserne was located pre-war and wartime. Home of 10.Panzer-Division. While the large stone bearing the names of the fallen shows a wartime carving of a German soldiers head complete with Stahlhelm the names are separated by small crosses only.

America is a complex nation. The line about forgetting your past being dangerous or you will repeat belies what I already know. I do not believe American school children are forced to walk the Trail of Tears or visit where slaves were sold on auction blocks or walk around where Indian massacres occurred. I have the luxury of two worlds and know first hand the differences in Lehrgang. Unlike German children who must, by mandate like I was, visit a concentration camp as part of their curriculum.

Josef Kraus, 2nd name at the bottom of the first image, fell in Normandy. He was in the Waffen-SS and is actually buried at La Cambe.

[scotty1418]

If they don’t have swastikas anywhere else in the World then not sure why they would have here.

We don’t know the dead were Nazis so the swastika might not be appropriate . It may just have been a very low level decision to put the swastika on the grave by the mason!

The German army fought under the swastika in WW2. That doesn't make the fallen party members.

[Peter J.]

I spent a full day in the beautiful surroundings of the cemetary in Richmond Va. 40 years ago, the last resting ground of three American presidents. As I strawled around, I noticed several grave-stones with the Stars & Bars engraved together with the name of the fallen soldier. In these days of politic correctness, have they been altered in order to save humanity .


cheers
Peter

[Seigfried]

There are 132 Germans buried in Sam Houston, according to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency newswire.

The retired officer who alerted the nonprofit group, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, to the graves kept his name out of it, he said, because he feared retribution given the increasing rash of anti-Semitism around the world.

Foundation president and founder Mikey Weinstein.

Anyone else link up the dots? I cannot help but see an agenda here. As for the headstones they should be left as they are.

[JanC]

Anyone else link up the dots? I cannot help but see an agenda here. As for the headstones they should be left as they are.

Totally agree! Leave them as they are.

Always a one way voice for this kind of crap.

[pauke]

The topic is certainly interesting with opinions on several sides of the argument. The first thing that I see that is a problem for clear understanding is the misleading title used for this thread. Which "military group" exactly wants the offending tombstones removed? The army, navy, air force, marines, coast guard or perhaps the brand new space force? The examples presented need more background explanation for such a topic to give readers a full understanding about German military and civilian graves. We have only partial information here where precise language is necessary.

[Byzanti]

Anyone else link up the dots? I cannot help but see an agenda here. As for the headstones they should be left as they are.

Ya I don’t see it...why don’t you “link up the dots” for us.

[Gaspare]

I am a American. I find it offensive in my opinion that those graves have a swastika on them.
They also have a Iron Cross on them. My opinion is that the iron cross is a symbol/emblem of honor that would offend no one and still honor the men that fell and are placed there to rest..
The swastika is a outlawed emblem in most countries. Here in the US it is the symbol of hate and used by many hate groups.. I have family the died putting a stop to the propagation of that emblem. IF more WW2 veterans were alive and knew about the swastikas I bet there wouldn't be a single one that would want that swastika on there..

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

Which "military group" exactly wants the offending tombstones removed? The army, navy, air force, marines, coast guard or perhaps the brand new space force?

This is www.militaryreligiousfreedom.com which demanded the removal of the swastika present on a few tombstones.

See You

Vince

[HouweTrouwe]

"Freedom" except everything that does not fit his "Freedom" Agenda. Seems more like a Dictatorship and his sole opinion that should be forced upon the whole military and his agenda. Might not have had that many friends in the military seems to me.

[Gran Sasso]

They also have a Iron Cross on them. My opinion is that the iron cross is a symbol/emblem of honor that would offend no one and still honor the men that fell and are placed there to rest...

The 1813 iron cross had a plain center

The 1870 one had a "W"

The 1914 one had a "W" + a crone

The 1939 one had the swastika

Period

[pauke]

Thanks for the reference, Vince, however my point is that the title of the thread is inaccurate because it is a private "foundation" that is upset and not a "military" group like the US Army.

[crowback]

Thanks for the reference, Vince, however my point is that the title of the thread is inaccurate because it is a private "foundation" that is upset and not a "military" group like the US Army.

You can thank the NY Daily News.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

Mike Weinstein is presenting the MRFF goals on this video (from 40.35 to 1.14.40) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEyRB-WNGcM

See You

Vince

[Seigfried]

Ya I don’t see it...why don’t you “link up the dots” for us.

Work it out for yourself - you will at least have a sense of achievement