Military group wants Nazi gravestones changed

[Byzanti]

Work it out for yourself - you will at least have a sense of achievement

Let’s look at your statement in it’s entire context then shall we? You’d like us to refer to the paragraphs you’ve quoted, and then “link up” or draw some conclusions about what you have pointed out. What I am reading is paragraph one- a statistic obtained by the “Jewish Telegraphic Agency” newswire. Then in the second paragraph, the source- an unnamed reporter of said information wishing to maintain his anonymity in reporting because he feared retribution due to fears of anti-semitism, (so we are to conclude that the reporter was likely Jewish him or herself?) and then finally in the third- simply the NAME of the foundations president, Mikey Weinstein. (Presumably also someone who is Jewish.)?... and you also refer to an “agenda.” So please tell us- what “agenda” do you believe these people to be advancing? And are the “Dots” you are linking up a Jewish agency, an anonymous Jewish reporter, And a Jewish foundation president as intending to do what, precisely? Do you feel that these soldiers or their monuments are being assaulted or conspired against by Jewish people? I’m honestly curious to know, because I’m not Jewish myself, but it is really not hard to imagine that being Jewish there is very little chance I’m unaffected by the graves and the cemetery, especially if these are American Jews and this is their country. Does that mean all want them removed? I doubt it, but if there is any “agenda” amongst those who do- who the hell could blame them?? I find this pointing out of “linking dots” and notion of conspiratorial “agenda” promotion one of not-so-veiled anti semitism itself and I for one think this type of speech has NO PLACE on our forum and only denigrates the work that those of us are doing trying to preserve all history of conflicts. When a member of a TR collecting community spews hate and filth it ruins everyone’s reputation.

[Gaspare]

Gran Sasso, so your point is the iron cross is a symbol of honor. but different time period had different center emblems. That is fine.
But after WW2 The nazis/swastika were deemed and criminal/outlawed organization. That is something that no one wants the honor of being associated with. The iron cross should be and is sufficient to honor these men who are buried here.

There is always another avenue to go. Have these mens families get their remains moved 'home' and then they can have the swastika on what ever they'd like there.

[Seigfried]

So please tell us- what “agenda” do you believe these people to be advancing?

The only agenda here is yet another minority being easily offended - these headstones have been in situ for 80 years and have been viewed countless times by all religions but all of a sudden someone takes offence and reports it to a newspaper knowing that anybody who argues to the contrary will immediately be negatively labelled and castigated. The people who complain about swastikas on headstones are the same ones who complain about TR militaria dealers and collectors and would love to see our hobby banned - nothing more and nothing less.

Your accusation of antisemitism is disingenuous, pernicious and illustrates a similar quickness to take offence as the person who reported the headstones in the first place - good day.

[Byzanti]

The only agenda here is yet another minority being easily offended - these headstones have been in situ for 80 years and have been viewed countless times by all religions but all of a sudden someone takes offence and reports it to a newspaper knowing that anybody who argues to the contrary will immediately be negatively labelled and castigated. The people who complain about swastikas on headstones are the same ones who complain about TR militaria dealers and collectors and would love to see our hobby banned - nothing more and nothing less.

Your accusation of antisemitism is disingenuous, pernicious and illustrates a similar quickness to take offence as the person who reported the headstones in the first place - good day.

This entire reply is 100% BS. Nothing more, nothing less.
For the record, I support the VA, and have embarked here on an inquiry of who, how, when and for what reason these were placed. Until enough evidence comes to overturn federal law, I maintain that support. However, I also support the rights of those in this country who are offended for whatever reason by them, and believe they not only have a right to their own opinion, but should be allowed to pursue that end to influence or change public policy, demand a voice or a vote- to change a law, or defy one they feel is unfair. I also believe that should they illegally protest or violently protest, they should feel the weight of the law. I’m proud to live in a country that supports and defends public opinion and the rights that empower them. I do not want my hobby banished. But I do not feel I have the right to fly a massive party banner outside my house, on a public street for all to see because I have no political interest in liberated war relics. They are in their proper place under glass, put there by my grandfathers. But maybe you do feel that way- it would certainly explain your insinuation of a Jewish conspiracy. I just happened to have a different opinion. I like TR along with other war relics, they are fascinating. But I am not a Nazi. I think being one validates the opinions of those who want our stuff banned. “Only nazis want this stuff.” Untrue. But I hope more are like me than not.

[Peter J.]

I realize I forgot a question-mark in the last sentence in my previous posting, it was intened as a serious inquiry.


cheers
Peter

[Byzanti]

So I have further even given my opinion and reasons Siegfried- but I’m not the one who is being held up to defend a statement.,,, so again, and clearly- Im saying that saying Jewish Americans are “yet another minority group” who are “easily offended” doesn’t know jack squat about history. I don’t think all Jews have a visceral reaction to the public display of a swastika. But I cannot conceivably imagine how on earth any person can, on a public forum, draw a line (or ask us to connect the dots) to the fact that this (probably) Jewish group is acting easily offended because ..,.so why exactly? Because they are Jewish? Is that what you mean to say? I’m not afraid to say who I am and what I believe. I’m sure a lot of Nazi sympathetic hobbyists hate me for saying these things- I don’t care. So come on- Why don’t you tell us all how you really feel instead of leaving us to “connect the dots.” ?

[Biber]

[Deleted post]

[pete]

.

Well my take on it is that if the acceptable symbol for the German War graves commission in 2020 is the Iron Cross with oak leaves in the center, and as the Swastika is outlawed in the current Germany (who took responsibility for the administration of War dead world wide) an easy way to still be respectable to War dead is just sand off the Swastika portion. That would only take a short time for a stone mason. End of story.

Maybe these groups could better focus their energy on dialogue with the real far right with connections that go directly back to WW2 parties and personalities that are active in Europe today in legal government under various conservative guises, or even openly. That's the real Danger, not what is actually just a short Stone Mason job.


Pete

[Mil-Archive]

That same stone mason can then hang around for those confederate graves to follow. If you cave in to disingenuous pressure groups like this there is no end.

[Kehlsteinhaus]

Why don't the Comission just turn round and say NO! **** OFF ! for a change instead of all this polite crap.

[Lloyd I.]

Why don't the Comission just turn round and say NO! **** OFF ! for a change instead of all this polite crap.

Did you read the statement from the VA on this? -"The VA stands firm in its determination to keep the relics as historical markers, not to honor the sentiments but to keep the memory alive of what the world was fighting against, Wilkie said in a statement to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and media outlets."

In effect that is what the VA has said while remaining professional in it's statement. I am sure as an orginization serving all veterans the VA is fully aware some other group of Anti-Semites like ANTIFA might come along and take offense at Jewish dead buried in military cemeteries because their headstones contain the Star of David or the Military Religious Freedom Foundation might demand the removal of Christian Crosses from headstones just as they have demanded crosses be removed from military installations.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...83D00L20120414

In effect it' a statement to toss-off as is.

[Gaspare]

People originally came to our country mainly for religious freedom. And eventually ALL regions were welcomed somewhere within the 13 colonies. And the Confederacy was part of our American history.
The war tribunal deemed the nazis a criminal organization. Those graves I'm not sure when the headstones were made but the death dates are 1943. WAY before we fully knew about death camps, concentration camps, slave labor camps.

They are Germans 1st. I still say wouldn't the families/relatives want their family members back home?? Ship them home,,and let their family/country put the swastika on the grave stone for them and everyone would be happy ..

Or if the families don't want them back,,as Pete mentions,,its a 20 min operation to just leave the Iron cross there..

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...emeteries.html

Text and picture courtesy of military.com

See You

Vince

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Group Threatens to Sue VA over Nazi Symbols in National Veterans Cemeteries

19 May 2020
Military.com | By Richard Sisk

An advocacy group is preparing to go to court unless the Department of Veterans Affairs swiftly removes Nazi symbols and references to Adolf Hitler from the headstones of three German prisoners of war from World War II buried in national veterans cemeteries.

The swastikas and inscriptions, which state in German, "He died far from his home for the Führer, people and fatherland," should not be allowed in VA cemeteries where American veterans are interred, said Mikey Weinstein, chairman of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

The symbols and the inscriptions "must be eradicated and eradicated now," he said Tuesday. "This is completely and totally wrong."

Weinstein, a former Air Force captain and graduate of the Air Force Academy, said MRFF is prepared to go to federal court if the VA refuses to remove the headstones. He also called on Congress to take action.

He said the VA should follow the example of Marine Commandant Gen. David Berger, who in April banned public displays of Confederate flags and paraphernalia at all Marine installations.

In a letter to all Marines, Berger wrote, "I am focused solely on building a uniquely capable warfighting team whose members come from all walks of life and must learn to operate side-by-side."

He said the Confederate flag "has shown it has the power to inflame feelings of division."

The three German POWs, whose remains were unclaimed after the war, are buried at two VA national cemeteries -- two at Fort Sam Houston National Cemetery in Texas and one at Fort Douglas Post Cemetery in Utah.

Weinstein said he was alerted to their presence by a retired colonel, whose name he withheld, who saw the headstones while visiting his Jewish grandfather's grave at the Texas cemetery and learned of the third headstone in Utah.

Weinstein said he wrote to VA Secretary Robert Wilkie last Monday, demanding their removal.

In a statement Wednesday, the VA's National Cemetery Administration said that the headstones could not be changed or removed under the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966.

The VA is required "to protect historic resources, including those that recognize divisive historical figures or events," according to the statement.

Since MRFF raised the issue, other groups have called on the VA to remove the headstones or erase the symbols and inscriptions.

In a statement last Thursday, the Southern Poverty Law Center said that the VA "isn't responsible for the mistakes of past cemetery managers. The graves are a relic of the prisoners of war transferred to the U.S. at the end of World War II who died here, the majority of whom were repatriated."

However, "the VA's defense of the swastika -- the preeminent symbol of antisemitism -- only gives oxygen to the white nationalist movement," the law center said.

In a letter to Wilkie last Friday backing MRFF, B'nai B'rith International, the Jewish service organization, expressed "outrage over the display of swastikas, iron crosses, and quotes honoring Adolf Hitler" on the three headstones.

"These deeply offensive symbols and language appear alongside the tombstones of American soldiers, including some who fought Nazi oppression in World War II," and should be removed, B'nai B'rith said.

In a statement Monday, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Florida and chair of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Military Construction and Veterans Affairs, said, "The VA's decision to leave the swastikas in place, as well as the messages honoring Hitler, while ignoring calls to take the headstones down, is callous, irresponsible and unacceptable."

Richard Sisk can be reached at Richard.Sisk@Military.com.

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Caption of the picture :
Headstone of a fallen German WWII POW at Ft. Sam Houston National Cemetery. (Michael Field/Wikimedia Commons)