Cloth U-boat and destroyer from U-534

[amiklic1]

Hi,
I just want to share these two cloth war badges that were found on U-534, for a referenceU-boat after it was raised from the sea bottom.



More photos can be found here:
http://www.u2359.com/Billeder/galler...534/index.html

[Norm F]

Hi Andjelo,

Very interesting patches and story. The U-Boat patch is very similar to the design found in an original wartime grouping as discussed here, but with some differences in the details:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=644225

The Destroyer patch is the same type that is commonly posted in unworn condition and that has not yet been seen in any period photo. A different type is found in a period photo as discussed here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=647967

I'm curious about the link you provided with the page of artifacts from the sea bottom. All of that stuff looks old and weathered except for these pristine cloth items. Doesn't that seem strange to you? Is there more to the story of how they were found?

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

I have 5 Enigma rotors that I have been told came from U-534. I have seen many photos of salvaged items, and some of them are really well preserved.

Here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6316477...ool-693496@N20

you can also see a nicely preseved battledress from U-534.

I have no story about these badges, but I am pretty sure they were kept somewhere so could be given to the sailors who were awarded during the war patrols.

As crew members could won various awards from the start till the end of the patrol, I am pretty sure they had various awards. Of course, some of them were made onboard if they did not have it ;-).

[Norm F]

I have no story about these badges, but I am pretty sure they were kept somewhere so could be given to the sailors who were awarded during the war patrols.

As crew members could won various awards from the start till the end of the patrol, I am pretty sure they had various awards. Of course, some of them were made onboard if they did not have it ;-).

Hi Andjelo,

The problem is, cloth awards were private purchase, not official awards, and were even forbidden from wear after mid-1942. U-534 was sunk in May, 1945. Very puzzling...

Best regards,
---Norm

[JAndrew]

Agree that these don't seem to show any ill effects from being submerged for so long. Aside from the fact that these would not have been award pieces, why would a U-boat captain be awarding destroyer badges?
JAndrew

[JAndrew]

BTW, to me they look like good badges. I am just questioning the story behind them.
JAndrew

[Norm F]

Aside from the fact that these would not have been award pieces, why would a U-boat captain be awarding destroyer badges?
JAndrew

It's all rather strange, isn't it? Either these were a crew member's unworn souvenirs hermetically stored for 50 years, or someone has "seeded" that web page of artifacts. At any rate, at this point in time we are still lacking the solid proof for that type of Destroyer patch being wartime production.

Best regards,
---Norm

[amiklic1]

Agree that these don't seem to show any ill effects from being submerged for so long. Aside from the fact that these would not have been award pieces, why would a U-boat captain be awarding destroyer badges?
JAndrew

Sometimes awards were given few months after the person earned it, so it was possible that some sailor was transferred to U-boat and just after that be given the destroyer badge.

Those badges were forbidden, but U-boat branch was a special and was doing many unofficial or semi-official things (like unofficial and private clothes usage, for instance), so it could be possible that they were using those.

Just trying to think about it, of course, and cannot be sure.

[petopoint]

Not Plausible.

I agree, it just doesn't seem plausible that these almost pristine cloth Badges were taken from a U-Boat submerged in seawater for any length of time.

[Wood]

I presume that these are on blue cloth and not the odd green colour I can see.
Odd, pristine, odd.
Pete

[Anthony]

An interesting story.
While talking to a well known German dealer many years ago I asked about the cloth U boat and Destroyer badges, and the answer was.

Two collectors who worked in a clothing factory made them in their spare time and flooded the market with them, to find any original ones is almost impossible, and that was 20 years ago as he was offered them first

Anthony

[Norm F]

Certainly, there is photographic evidence of the cloth U-Boat badge in wear, and the example from the other thread was part of a sailor's grouping with decent provenance.

Here's a comparison of this pristine cloth badge from the U-534 website and the one from the other thread with decent provenance. Although similar from a distance, you can see a lot of differences in the embroidery patterns. To my eye, they're not the same.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The cloth Destroyer badge is also seen in a wartime photograph, but as mentioned it's a different type as seen in this thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...77#post5702177

In contrast there's this odd example with dubious construction of the reverse which is a good match to the commonly seen (mass produced) examples that are usually posted for review, and a good match to the one from the U-534 website.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's a thread with the same type of pristine U-Boat and Destroyer patches.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=206865

[Norm F]

Mind you, here's another thread with the same type of pristine U-Boat and Destroyer badges, and Jody and Erik believed in them.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=223598
It's still possible, but as far as I'm aware we still lack any examples of this U-Boat with provenance like the other type, and unfortunately the period photographs that have appeared are too small and fuzzy to differentiate these two.