Folding showel with cover on estand

[Jørn Schmidt]

This Folding showel with cover has just been sold on estand,I must admit that I have a very bad feeling about the cover:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834372

[octopuss]

I don't like this cover. Doubts with the grained leather...the mark...

[anmarlodz]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=834432

[John Foxx]

Can't see a problem with the cover, gaq 41 is Stephan, Otto, Leder u Lederwarenfabrik, Mühlhausen i/Thür. According to the code book. The seller has the wrong last letter thats all but if you check the sales thread it is clearly a q. I am not so sure of the first two letters on the spade either but it is a bit hard to read? Are there a lot of these spade covers hitting the market as that would give cause for concern? Or do folks just not like them? Bare in mind this is a first pattern of the folding spade cover so no doubt there could have been a lot variation between small business concerns until they went for the second better model? My point being there may be a little variation in general construction within boundries? I tend to get twitchy when we see 100s of these things turn up. That is not to say the re-enactor cottage industry is not in full swing?

Why have you waited until it is sold to highlite your concerns, or have you just noticed this?

[anmarlodz]

Can't see a problem with the cover, gaq 41 is Stephan, Otto, Leder u Lederwarenfabrik, Mühlhausen i/Thür. According to the code book. The seller has the wrong last letter thats all but if you check the sales thread it is clearly a q. I am not so sure of the first two letters on the spade either but it is a bit hard to read? Are there a lot of these spade covers hitting the market as that would give cause for concern? Or do folks just not like them? Bare in mind this is a first pattern of the folding spade cover so no doubt there could have been a lot variation between small business concerns until they went for the second better model? My point being there may be a little variation in general construction within boundries? I tend to get twitchy when we see 100s of these things turn up. That is not to say the re-enactor cottage industry is not in full swing?

Why have you waited until it is sold to highlite your concerns, or have you just noticed this?

First of all ; it is SECOND pattern folding shovel cover ( or at least it supposed to be / try to be )- other thing is that I never seen second pattern folding shovel cover dated earlier than 1942.
IMO it is postwar DDR shovel cover re-worked to look like wartime shovel cover ; simply it FAKE shovel cover - nothing more.
So if you think this original shovel cover than it seems that you NEVER seen original secodn pattern folding shovel cover AT ALL.


Regarding your last question ; I didn't - I highlited it long befor it was marked as sold ( look at link above and see thet date ).

[John Foxx]

First of all ; it is SECOND pattern folding shovel cover ( or at least it supposed to be / try to be )- other thing is that I never seen second pattern folding shovel cover dated earlier than 1942.
IMO it is postwar DDR shovel cover re-worked to look like wartime shovel cover ; simply it FAKE shovel cover - nothing more.
So if you think this original shovel cover yjam it seems that you NEVER seen original secodn pattern folding shovel cover AT ALL.

Edit no error. Have you no comment on the maker, is this a known fake maker, the Waffenamt number is unreadable for sure but the maker made leather stuff. The maker the seller quoted makes porcelane so that would not add up.

I think if it is a DDR pattern, this would be somewhat rarer than a normal second pattern so a bit ironoc really. Mine is presstoff and leather and the date is not clear to me. What if it were December 41, Jan 42 gets a 42 stamp, or do you know the source of the aledged fakes?

Edit I see you informed the seller now with the link,

Edit I have just looked again at my books and this is the earlier version as later it states the cover enclosed the whole of the top so that explains my confussion?

[John Foxx]

To clarify the books I am reading state this is the first type of folding shovel cover and that there were two types of this cover not the straight spade cover. My spade is dated 1941 and has this sort of cover, I have owned it for over 30 years, before this all became a sience and I don't have any worries about mine. Which pattern is this in the rest of the worlds opinion? I am only going from Angolia and Schlicht? I would hope they have not made such a basic error in two books?

[duv]

it is fake pattern of fake cover
http://www.mp44.nl/equipment/folding...ching_tool.htm
rest of world use this web

[anmarlodz]

To clarify the books I am reading state this is the first type of folding shovel cover and that there were two types of this cover not the straight spade cover. My spade is dated 1941 and has this sort of cover, I have owned it for over 30 years, before this all became a sience and I don't have any worries about mine. Which pattern is this in the rest of the worlds opinion? I am only going from Angolia and Schlicht? I would hope they have not made such a basic error in two books?

Angolia is FULL of mistakes and this one of them ( calling second pattern shovel cover - without closed top - as first pattern and reverse - the one with closed top as second pattern while it was first pattern )

It seems that your ealy don't have enought knowledge or you are simply ignorant.
Check the link above provided by duv.

[John Foxx]

Well Thanks for the heads up.

I guess I am simply ignorant or have not looked at this area in any deapth? I shall ammend the books. Toms site is very good that said even he is a relative new comer but I do like that he backs his assumptions with period paperwork from what I have seen in the past. He is totaly immersed in this aspect of the hobby as is obvious. With this item the date runs would be enough to differentiate I suppose?

As a hobby and not a religion I am always happy to learn something new.

I ask again though, are these from Poland as you would have to be 'tooled up' to even think about producing something as complex as this and it would not be worth it for a limited production run.

Do you know who is making them?

I ask to learn as a 'carte blanche' its a copy all the time is a bit boring and I did note the red arrow on the bottom of the carrier but is that all the difference there is?

I thought discussion forum to share knowledge?

Cheers