Spade,Carrier,Bayo Set 2

[sfmike1]

I'm guessing I'm not alone to doubt the '42 tropical gear issue theory. My humble contribution would be a "GB 41” (Gustav Brehmer) buckle with its "green" webbing tab. I can post if there are doubts, but I'm sure many of us have seen these.....? I know one could say "the buckle was made in '41, but the web tab was stitched to it and issued in '42"....but that seems unlikely.

[-Decerf-]

This old topic might interest you. You can see my example of the "Seitengewertasche für das zusammenklappbare Schanzwerkzeg"

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...reply&t=767265

[Grubhy]

Link does not work

This old topic might interest you. You can see my example of the "Seitengewertasche für das zusammenklappbare Schanzwerkzeg"

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...reply&t=767265

[-Decerf-]

Link does not work

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=659042

[Sleepwalker]

I'm guessing I'm not alone to doubt the '42 tropical gear issue theory. My humble contribution would be a "GB 41” (Gustav Brehmer) buckle with its "green" webbing tab. I can post if there are doubts, but I'm sure many of us have seen these.....? I know one could say "the buckle was made in '41, but the web tab was stitched to it and issued in '42"....but that seems unlikely.

Hello,

buckles with differnet dates are not scare. Often a stock of buckles at the end of year were take over in the following year. I have seen this often.

So only ink stamps on web gear is significant.
In only know stamps of 1942 and 43.
Also the marks of a real tropical canteen are from 1942 or 1943.

And on the other hand the original regulations.

The only fact for the "1941 theory" is the formation of the DAK in Feb. 1941... and the indroduction of the tropical uniform.
All the other things are made out of belief... not facts. And only facs representative, not belifings or myths.
I also see no one foto, who can be dated in 1941, with web gear.
Of photos out of 1942 you can see web and leather gear.

Informations of the indruction of the web gear you can also find in the L.V.Bl. 1942, 17. Ausgabe. Page 550, Nr. 1025 "Bekleidung und Ausrüstung für Tropen" from 13.04.1942, Az.: 64a (L D Ag 12 II A2).


Regards

[anmarlodz]

Hello,

buckles with differnet dates are not scare. Often a stock of buckles at the end of year were take over in the following year. I have seen this often.

So only ink stamps on web gear is significant.
In only know stamps of 1942 and 43.
Also the marks of a real tropical canteen are from 1942 or 1943.

And on the other hand the original regulations.

The only fact for the "1941 theory" is the formation of the DAK in Feb. 1941... and the indroduction of the tropical uniform.
All the other things are made out of belief... not facts. And only facs representative, not belifings or myths.
I also see no one foto, who can be dated in 1941, with web gear.
Of photos out of 1942 you can see web and leather gear.

Informations of the indruction of the web gear you can also find in the L.V.Bl. 1942, 17. Ausgabe. Page 550, Nr. 1025 "Bekleidung und Ausrüstung für Tropen" from 13.04.1942, Az.: 64a (L D Ag 12 II A2).


Regards

Well you seems to be die-hard person. You doesn't seem to take in consideration that regulations were OFTEN introduced long after some physical events happen. For example ; regulations about how soldiers should carry gasplanes occured after soldiers "invention" of carrying them caused damages to gasplanes, which may end with death of soldier during gas attack.
Another; regulations and guidelines for winter warfare were introduced after first winter in eastern front etc. The same with regulations and guidelines for warfre in tropical areas.
The same thing about regulations and using guidelines for tropical equipment. Regulations regarding tropical equipment might have been introduce because it was commonly used in all theathers of war since 1942.
I wrote already ; I had in my collection and seen items made in 1941 ! One of them was tropical canteen ( whole dated 1941 - from cover to bottle ), other was first pattern tropical backpack ( also date 1941 ), another second pattern tropical Y-straps ( dated 1941 ) etc. etc. You want proof than let me find photos and than I show them to you.
I think also many others tropical fieldgear collectors can show you tropical equipment dated 1941.
So please stop writing that tropical equipment was introduced in 1942!!!! Cause it wasn't ! It was prepared in ther very same time as tropical uniforms ( at least first pattern tropical, Y-straps, belts, bayonet frogs, A-frames and backpacks ).

[Grubhy]

...1941 dated web- straps:

DSC_0928.jpg

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=763574

Very informative thread and BOTH of You are on the money, Sleepwalker (sorry I don't know your name) with info regarding period manuals and Marcin with... Obvious facts that the web stuff has been introduced in 1941 same as manuals came up after the first battles

Picture of my 1941 dated A-frame, stone mint, untouched:

rama 3.jpg

Goodnight

[sfmike1]

Very beautiful '41 gear Grubhy!

[John Hodgin]

The production of tropical clothing (both Heer and Luftwaffe) began in 1940.

A 1940 dated Berolina produced Luftwaffe sidecap.

[John Hodgin]

If you take the time to look through this thread you will see dozens of Luftwaffe tropical sidecaps produced in 1941.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=109947

If you read this book you will find more information about the production dates of tropical uniforms and equipment. Even the Fallschirmjäger tropical jump smock was produced in 1941.

http://www.amazon.com/German-Paratro.../dp/0764329391

[sfmike1]

Great pics John! I think the contested point was the year of introduction of field gear, not uniforms however. There was no disagreement on the uniform introduction date (I believe....). The book has many excellent photos (I have one too).

[Grubhy]

Thanks Mike and thanks John! Great pics and great book. The point here was the equipment, introduced date and marked examples of 100% good and untouched items produced before 1942. A lot of useful info poped-up, including period sources and obstacles with taking information from them without access to the artifacts. Love this forum

[sfmike1]

Thanks Grubhy. I realize my own set of early tropical Y straps are 1941 as well, although not as clearly marked as yours.

[John Hodgin]

Great pics John! I think the contested point was the year of introduction of field gear, not uniforms however. There was no disagreement on the uniform introduction date (I believe....). The book has many excellent photos (I have one too).

Thanks SFMike1, understand. Thought sleepwalker was talking about everything tropical so thought the photos of the caps would help. I believe tropical field gear and uniform production both began sometime in later 1940. Am thinking the first model all web combat suspenders (Y straps) with the center back piece web and not leather were 1940 produced. Would be very unlike German thoroughness to begin production of clothing and not consider field gear also. There is no doubt as the DAK was hurried to Africa to aid the Italians all this was initially in short supply.

[Sleepwalker]

Hello,

no, i sayed ONLY that tropical belts, boucles, frogs and y-straps were indroduced in 1942 per order you can read in original german sources...

I see not only one proof that show me the indroduction of that gear in 1941...

The A-frams or the carring-frame always were made out of web material... and were no special tropical equipment (Witkopf maks his bayont frogs with WIKO Bielefled 1942 not with full name).

The leather parts of the y-frames must not derive out of the same year of the production of the Y-fame... and can consider out of the End of 1941.
Rahm und Kappmann Kaiserslautern is a leather producer and a component supplier of such leather parts.
In the web parts of the y-stramp i can not see any 1941 stamp.


Regards