Matching K98 pouches

[RodneyO]

Hi All,
They’re in very good condition and both have matching RBN numbers, RBNr.0/0570/0033. The rawhide dividers are present and there are traces of some black paint on the metal parts. I did a searched and found that black painted parts would indicate that these could be Russian captured pouches and most are found without their rawhide dividers. Are these Russian captured k98 ammo pouches and what are the chances of finding a matching “captured” set?

Thank you,
Rodney
k98 ammo pouch.jpg
k98-1.jpg

[RodneyO]

[ATTACH]2314800[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2314801[/ATTACH]

[RodneyO]

[ATTACH]2314802[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]2314803[/ATTACH]

[RodneyO]

k98-6.jpg

All have rawhide dividers:
k98-7.jpg

[Scott C.]

Tough to find them matching and in such nice condition. Great set!

[phild]

I have no idea if these are Russian captured or not. They appear to have been dyed based on the blackened thread and general look of the finish. I think that this may also be how/why the metal parts are blackened. This may have been done wartime or after. The Germans dyed a lot of early brown leather equipment, but these appear to have been made originally black so I do not know.

There is a lot of talk about a lot of things as "matching sets" because the makers and dates are the same.....I understand things like boots and gloves that were kept and issued as a set, but IMO I doubt that ammo pouches were maintained as pairs and if two of the same maker and date were issued together it was chance and not design.

I would say that generally shipments from one batch and one factory might more or less stay together down thru the various suppy levels until being issued....at least the first time they were issued.

[Sonnenwende]

Those are a pair of nice and unusual pouches you have. I agree, they could be russian capture, but might just have been "enhanced" by someone postwar with shoepolish and perhaps some black paint.

I have never seen 98k pouches that are both sewn and riveted on the lid straps. Congrats

Regards Sonnenwende

[RodneyO]

Thank you Scott, phild and Sonnenwende!!
I’m happy to hear that they are a good pair and tough to find.

I would have thought that they would have been issued as a pair from the factories that supplied them to the depot. These being in good condition might have been found after the war as they look like mid-late war pouches and might have never been issued. The thread is black but how would they dye them without dying the insides, under the closer strap and edges of the leather?

I just notice the stitching and rivets on the closer straps. I looked for other examples and couldn’t find any with the same method used. Black shoe polish to enhance the black leather post-war might be why the threads are black. Will this hurt the value of the pouches?
I’ll take more pictures later this weekend showing better details.

Thank you again for your help!

[RodneyO]

Sorry (Sonnenwende) it took me longer then expected to post more pictures of the riveted/sewn lid straps on the k98 pouches.
Are these mid or late-war pouches? Is there anyway of telling what year or make these are by the RBNr.?

Thank you,
Rodney

k98 pouches.jpg
k98 pouches-1.jpg

[RodneyO]

Bottom of pouches:
k98 pouches-2.jpg

Side of pouch:
k98 pouches-3.jpg

[RodneyO]

Inside of lid:
k98 pouches-4.jpg

Pouch rawhide divider: (all are complete with dividers)
k98 pouches-5.jpg

[Vilja]

For what it is worth, I have owned many matched pairs of RC (Russian Capture) K98 pouches and each pair had all of the exposed metal surfaces covered with black paint.
All the matched sets had their dividers and of course all had the same RB#.
But what I did find is that one of the pouches was always a little more "used" than the other....so the numbers matched, but the condition of each pouch varied slightly.
I have also owned RC pouches that were almost identical in condition, wear and color, but had different maker marks or RB#.....and many times it was difficult to read the maker mark or RB#....yet they could pass as a matched set.

Vilja

[RodneyO]

Hi Vilja
Thanks for the info!! Why did the Russian's paint the metal parts black and removed their rawhide dividers?

[Sonnenwende]

Hi Rodney,
The RBNr. does not tell what year/date these pouches were made. However the RBNr. code was introduced in late 1942, so they are not from before this. Construction wise I would say they were likely made in 1943/early 1944. The use of both stiching and riveting on the lid straps suggests they are not latewar IMO as they were trying to simplify everything as the war drew to a close. No one has yet found a code book/list for the RBNr.-codes, but the 0 probably signifies "industrial production", the 0570 is the area code, perhaps someone know what it is? 0560 is Wuppertal, so probably somewhere in that area? The 0033 is the factory code in that particular area, again to my knowledge no one knows who this is yet, unfortunately.
The russians would paint the metal parts with black or green paint to prevent them from rusting when in storage I suppose. Why they sometimes removed the dividers? Perhaps because they did not intend to use the pouches for stripper clips but just loose rounds? I don´t think yours is a russian capture after seeing the last photos though.

Regards
Sonnenwende

[Luciusdegeer]

Indeed not Russian capture pouches. I was told the metal parts would be painted by forced labourers or concentration camp inmates, so the paint would be applied very sloppily. They used both 'real' paint and some kind of tar, that can both be removed easily with your fingernail. All K98 pouches had black paint on them, on G43 pouches I sometimes saw green paint.
I saw hundreds of RC pouches, and none of them resembled these examples.

Greetings,

Lucius