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**Sonnenwende** · 03-14-2012, 11:42 AM

Hi Knoffhoff,
thanks for showing. Nice Zelts

Interestingly these same pattern bakelite buttons seem to come in at least following variations on Zelts:

dark brown: three & four stitching holes
transparent brown: three holes
grey: three holes

The four holes are also seen on italian square Zelts.

I wonder if the four holes were italian made and the three holes were german produced (like the other german three hole Zelt buttons)?

Regards Sonnenwende.

**ateas** · 03-17-2012, 04:31 PM

Hi,
as we all know it is almost impossible to stop collecting zeltbahns.

I can't resist buying those two:

Nice prewar zeltbahn. Two stamps: „B36“- probably Berlin depot stamp and „Fl. Schule Hildesheim 1936“. I wondered if both stamps are original? How can be explained the presence of "Berlin" and "Hildesheim" stamps on one zelt? I found more „Fl. Schule Hildesheim“ stamped items on WAF.

The second zelt is probably a very late one. The head opening flap is made from completely different fabric (?italian fabric covered by splitter print?) than the surroundings (usual german late war fabric). Two types of buttons- brown painted and some kind of black plastic buttons. The yellowish thread is also nice. Do you like this zelt?

Regards,
Adam

**grndevil44** · 03-18-2012, 09:25 AM

yeah, like both these zelts Adam, nice pick ups,
the black buttons with the white flecks remind me of
the waterbottle cups, any ones in better condition you could show?
whats the fabric like opening up the neck area there?

Cheers

**ateas** · 03-20-2012, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by grndevil44 View Post

the black buttons with the white flecks remind me of the waterbottle cups, any ones in better condition you could show?

Unfortunately, this one is best preserved. But maybe someone have the complete one?

Only the flaps are made from different fabric (much softer) the rest looks like standard german late war issue. Did you see the regular dark shadow on the second photo? Carbon overprint or just the leaked paint from the other side of the fabric?

**grndevil44** · 03-20-2012, 04:37 PM

Did you see the regular dark shadow on the second photo? Carbon overprint or just the leaked paint from the other side of the fabric?[/QUOTE]

could be overprint, but I think would have to see the other side to be sure as like you said could be colour bleed,

still nice though

**MP44_tom** · 03-21-2012, 01:54 AM

Hi

Nice Zelts......

Probably the other side showing through..... I think the carbon overprint was allways done in rounded shapes (like the italian zelts). At least I never saw an overprint in rectangular forms but I am not entirely sure....

But I know someone who his sure and he'll sure chime in

Tom
www.mp44.nl

**camo master** · 03-24-2012, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by knoffhoff View Post

I'm not quite sure if I got your request for a picture of the seam right. I just took pictures of the two little parts of the Zeltbahn, if you can't see what you wanted to see let me know.

Hi Knoffhoff,
Im just going back through that thread and took a closer look at your zelt in photo #417.

In this photos its might be possible to see some faint outlines of this COP print. It is on the top side of the zelt not underside. I let my subscription laps on the WAF so I can no longer post pics so if you send me an email, I'll send you the photo of areas to take a closer look at highlighted.

marksteacy@mac.com

…..or post some additional photos of the top side of the zelt. Try to lay it out flat and smooth out the wrinkles as much as possible. Maybe divide each of the large panels up into 2 or 3 photos. This should be enough to see if there is a COP print there. If it is present it is quite faded.

Cheers
Mark

**camo master** · 03-24-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by knoffhoff View Post

I'm not quite sure if I got your request for a picture of the seam right. I just took pictures of the two little parts of the Zeltbahn, if you can't see what you wanted to see let me know.

Originally posted by knoffhoff View Post

the one with much less rust

Hi Knoffhoff,
This is an interesting steel button in post #437 - difficult to tell from the photos but it looks like this was zinc coated and then painted grey. I have seen grey painted steel buttons before but dont recall ever seeing evidence of zinc coating on them.

Cheers
Mark

**camo master** · 03-24-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by ateas View Post

Hi,
as we all know it is almost impossible to stop collecting zeltbahns.

I can't resist buying those two:

Hi Adam - Absolutely, there is always something interesting to see and the early stamped ones are often really interesting as you posted below.

Nice prewar zeltbahn. Two stamps: „B36“- probably Berlin depot stamp and „Fl. Schule Hildesheim 1936“. I wondered if both stamps are original? How can be explained the presence of "Berlin" and "Hildesheim" stamps on one zelt? I found more „Fl. Schule Hildesheim“ stamped items on WAF.

These stamps look ok to me. The B36 stamp as you pointed out is the Berlin depot stamp. From what I understand, factories shipped finished zelts to the depot and were then distributed out to units that needed them. This one then went to the Flight school in Hildersheim so it isnt unreasonable its presence on the zelt. I often see this on these early zelts where the unit stamps have a location included.
Great zelt Adam.
Mark

The second zelt is probably a very late one. The head opening flap is made from completely different fabric (?italian fabric covered by splitter print?) than the surroundings (usual german late war fabric). Two types of buttons- brown painted and some kind of black plastic buttons. The yellowish thread is also nice. Do you like this zelt?

Regards,
Adam

This is also a great zelt Adam. The head hole facing is in that Ochre brown colour variation print and when you see a full zelt in this print it is quite striking. The shadow print is just bleed through from the other side which often happens on poorly produced late war fabric. Have never seen this type of Black button before - perhaps post war applied or done in the field?????
Nice to see the variations on this zelt.
Cheers
Mark

**camo master** · 03-24-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by MP44_tom View Post

Hi

Nice Zelts......

Probably the other side showing through..... I think the carbon overprint was allways done in rounded shapes (like the italian zelts). At least I never saw an overprint in rectangular forms but I am not entirely sure....

But I know someone who his sure and he'll sure chime in

Tom
www.mp44.nl

absolutely Tom,

.
To date, I have never seen the COP in anything except the Italian pattern and one other which I will keep quiet about

until I can get this book finished. Regardless, the COP pattern never has the geometric straight lines of the splinter print.

Cheers
Mark

**camo master** · 03-24-2012, 09:34 AM

Hey All

I just wanted to take a second and thank John - grndevil44 for having the foresight to start this thread way back in 2008.

With well over 27,000 hits and 30 pages of posts, it's has become huge source of zelt information for anyone starting out collecting this area or even for experienced collectors to see new things that are being discovered and share with the collecting community.

I just wonder why, with so much attention, this thread isnt pinned???????

Cheers to all for sharing through the years.
Mark

**MP44_tom** · 03-24-2012, 10:33 AM

I agree Mark... this one should be pinned !!!

Might I also suggest that if you put in a new manufacturer that you include what you see in the text ??

I use this as a reference but sometimes have to scroll to all the pages to see if the manufacturer I search is there...

If you put it in text as well, it can easily be found.....

Example:

E.G. Leuner
Bautzen
1938

Tom
www.mp44.nl

Attached Files

egleuner.jpg (87.9 KB, 474 views)

**knoffhoff** · 03-24-2012, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by MP44_tom View Post

I agree Mark... this one should be pinned !!!

I totally second that !!!

Originally posted by camo master View Post

..or post some additional photos of the top side of the zelt. Try to lay it out flat and smooth out the wrinkles as much as possible. Maybe divide each of the large panels up into 2 or 3 photos. This should be enough to see if there is a COP print there. If it is present it is quite faded.

I will post some more pics tomorrow.

Originally posted by MP44_tom View Post

Might I also suggest that if you put in a new manufacturer that you include what you see in the text ??

I use this as a reference but sometimes have to scroll to all the pages to see if the manufacturer I search is there...

If you put it in text as well, it can easily be found.....

It would really be nice if every Zelt that is shown here had the maker marks in text form in the same post. It would make the search for specific items much easier.

Not so long ago I started writing down all makers of Wehrmacht Zelts that I encountered and could make out without a doubt. I'm sure there are tons of makers missing, but I guess a overview over all the makers would also be helpful. Feel free to add missing makers to the list.

1932

A. Fischer Guttstadt, Ostpr. 1932

1935

L. Stromeyer & Co Konstanz 1935
WEBER & OTT Aktiengesellschaft Forchheim (Bayern) 1935

1937

Franz Weck Berlin 1937
Mech. Leinenweberei Salzgitter 1937 - "Warei" - Zeltbahn D.R.P. 430772 "in Lizenz"
Paul Köppen Berlin 1937

1938

L.G. der Segelmacher Berlin 1938
Paul Köppen Berlin 1938
Julius Heywinkel Osnabrück 1938

1939

Georg Bachmann Hausweide 1939
G.J.Ensink & Co Ohrdruf/Thür. 1939
Paul Köppen Berlin 1939
Schirm & Mittler Reutlingen 1939
Weberei Salzgitter Wilhelm ........... Salzgitter 1939
Briel Frankfurt/M 1939

1940

Alfred St.....er & Co. Freiburg i. Br. 1940
Franz Weck Berlin 1940
Georg Bachmann Hausweide 1940
Heinrich Hofmann Mech. Weberei u. Näherei Wetzlar-Grabenheim 1940
L. Stromeyer & Co Konstanz 1940
TEXTILLWERKE Karl Anton Henschel Kassel 1940
Max Scheffel 1940 Grünbach (Vogtl.)
Julius Heywinkel Osnabrück 1940

1941

Franz Weck Berlin 1941
Georg Bachmann Hausweide 1941
J.C.Runken & Co. Bremen 1941
Paul Köppen Berlin 1941
Textilwerk Heinrich Hofmann Wetzlar.Garbenheim 1941
"Warei" Patentzelte Walter Reichert BERLIN NW 40 - "Warei" Zeltbahn: D.R.P. 1941
WEBER & OTT Aktiengesellschaft Forchheim (Oberfr.) 1941

1942

E G Leuner G.m.b.H Bautzen 1942
Hermann Wighardt Textilwerk Fulda in Fulda 1942
Paul Köppen Berlin 1942
Textilwerk Heinrich Hofmann Wetzlar-Garbenheim 1942
TEXTILWERKE Karl Anton Henschel Kassel 1942
WALTER E. FORSTER Plauen (VogtL) 1942
"Warei" - Patentzelte Walter Reichert BERLIN NW 40 - "Warei" Zeltbahn: D.R.P. 1942

1943

A.P. Schmidt Mühlhausen i. Thür. 1943
Georg v. Olnhausen Zelte-Fabrik Frankfurt am Main 1943
RBNr. 0/1007/0156 1943
R.B. Nr. 0/1001/0204 1943
Salzmann & Comp Kassel 1943
"Warei" Patentzelte Walter Reichert BERLIN NW 40 - "Warei" Zeltbahn: D.R.P. 1943

1944

0 0510-0058 1944
0/0655/0005 1944
RBNr. 0/1007/0156 1944
Reichsbetriebs Nr. 0/0954/0004 1944

1945

RBNr. 0/1007/0156 1945
RB.-Nr. 0/0155/0030 1945
0 0510-0058 1945
Reichsbetriebs Nr. 0/0954/0004 1945

undated

R.Betr.Nr. 0/0030/0005
0/0156/0013
RB.Nr. 0/0362/0065
Reichsbetriebsnummer 0/0578/0026
RB-NR. 0/0573/0134
0/0591/0014
R.B. Nr. 0/0601/0013
R.B.-Nr. 0/0769/0029
RBNr. 0/1305/0460
RBNr. 1/0415/0061

**MP44_tom** · 03-26-2012, 03:57 AM

Thanks for the overview Knoffhoff..... saves me a lot of work

Now another one I can't figure out

Landes Lieferungs Genossenschaft
In(?) das Soll(......)
(....)cherhandwerk
Berlin 193(8?) 6

Tom
www.mp44.nl

Attached Files

img.jpg (97.5 KB, 462 views)

**grndevil44** · 03-26-2012, 07:06 AM

well done Knoffhoff

was wondering how to make the info more readily viewable,

great effort BTW with all the work guys,

just checking back on this one TOM, the date looks like 38

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