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    #361
    Zelt search.

    Hello and good day,searched through my 20 odd zelts but couldn't find any of the selve edge unfinished fabric but good to get them all out and give them all an airing,just a pain to fold them all up again! For some reason decided to measure the head pattern (I think there was a post about a different sized head on the forum)measured a few, quite a difference with some of them.The carbon over print was the smallest at 11.4cm infact the whole pattern was noticeably smaller as shown in the second picture. Were the print rollers made in the one factory and then distributed to the various makers or was the original drawn pattern sent out to various factories to produce their own rollers? Looking forward to the zeltbahn book,would make a nice Christmas present! Regards David.
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      #362
      Nice comparition on the second picture, David. It is clearly seen the size difference. I must check mine folded up since a long time.

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        #363
        This zelt probably got too much sun and greens were melted down
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          #364
          more...
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            #365
            So many slight errors!

            Hi,so many slight variations and printing errors that only we zelt fanatics love and notice!Like the running green on the one shown.Regards David.

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              #366
              Originally posted by Hans Zeug View Post
              Were the print rollers made in the one factory and then distributed to the various makers or was the original drawn pattern sent out to various factories to produce their own rollers? Looking forward to the zeltbahn book,would make a nice Christmas present! Regards David.
              Well David - that is a really good question and one we dont have an answer for as to what exactly happened in the print factories. If the '40's were anything like today, the rollers were sent out to special engraving factories to have the artwork etched in. It's the old addage - stick with what you do best but that is only speculation on my part. I also dont know exactly how the artwork was transferred from line art (hand drawn) to the rollers. Likely some sort of photo etching process.

              The pics that Marcin posted is the first time Ive had a glimps at how this artwork was constructed and what got me so stoked on it. Outlines were hand drawn - you can clearly see where someone drew these outlines which extended out past the joining line at intersections, then the splinters were filled in. This was possibly done with a dark acetate but again just a guess. Im almost positive the rain drop patterns were hand painted with a brush. If one looks closely at these you can see the brush stokes. Then the knock outs were cut out. For the open wave pattern, likely just painted that way.

              So now you bring up another very good point about the repeat sizes. The size of the prints was soley dependant on the roller sizes available at each print factory so artwork had to be adjusted for the different size rollers. At this point, I dont know how they did that, no computers to click and compress or stretch so it was likely all done by hand like everything else at the time.

              I see you've measured the head size but the best way to do this which is a little more accurate is to measure from one part to the same part on the verticle of the print. When you are measuring just the head it is a smaller area and a great chance for error.

              See below a photo comparison between the regular or most common print size and a version that I've just arbitrarly called the "Big Head" version. The most standard repeat size is around 49 cm give or take a couple cm. The "Big Head" is huge in comparison and after you notice it, it really stands out even in war time photos. That gapping mouth that slants back is really visible. This repeat runs up around 60cm and less common than regular prints. Measure the repeat of your COP zelt and compare it to a regular one. BTW - just to keep you zelties on your toes, the Big Head version also has a totally different raindrop pattern.

              When measuring these repeats keep in mind that the fabrics shrink after the zelts were made. Some of the fabrics shrink differently depending on the content of the yarns in the fabric, how the fabric was woven, the fabric printing process and finally what happened to the fabric during its war time use ie exposure to rain and sun, heat cold etc. So one has to put these measurements into groups that could have been done by the same size rollers.

              Blah blah blah - two (big) beers later and im ready to go to the bar for a couple more - you really have to love Wan Chai in Hong Kong - one of the best places in the world and its a 3 minute walk from my apartment.
              Anyway, all good and all food for thought.

              Cheers All
              Mark
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                #367
                Originally posted by marcinkappa View Post
                This zelt probably got too much sun and greens were melted down
                Yeah Marcin - awesome - I love it. Laughed my ass off when I read that. We can call this print 30C icecream

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                  #368
                  Zelt patterns.

                  Hi Mark,as always lots of interesting thoughts on the zelts and patterns,good point about shrinkage never thought about that,will have to dig mine out again,think I'll take them to work at the weekend and take a good look at them wit me measuring stick. Book should be a mine of useful information. Any idea when it will be out, of course I realise there are probably more important things that you to do as well.Regards David.

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                    #369
                    Originally posted by camo master View Post
                    We can call this print 30C icecream
                    Mark, you killed me

                    Now seriously, again so many precious informations, as always Mark, just as David said, never thought about shrinkings etc.

                    Mark, I`m affraid I have to ask you to leave Wan Chai and go home to finish the book

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                      #370
                      Originally posted by camo master View Post
                      See below a photo comparison between the regular or most common print size and a version that I've just arbitrarly called the "Big Head" version.
                      This is really BIG head, for sure has nothing to do with shrinking or not shrinking, totaly different roller size most probably would mean that these rollers were made by the different maker.

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                        #371
                        Roller patern.

                        Hi,so the camo pattern would have been designed at the ordenance centre and the design pattern would have been sent out to various manufacturers where there roller makers would make the rollers,hand engraved or maybe using a pantograph,elctro etching or maybe acid etching? You would have thought if they were working from a pattern that all of the rollers would produce a zelt that was all most identical give or take a few mills either way.Also what part do the screens play in all this? I hope that when the book comes out that there is a section on the actual process from start to finish of the making of the zeltbahn.Regards David.

                        Comment

                          #372
                          Hi David,

                          As you can guess there is still a lot of work to do in this area with so many unanswered questions. It is a big part in the history of the zeltbahn and an important one considering it resulted in all the variations we are discovering.

                          What did you mean by "What part did the screens play in all of this?"

                          Cheers
                          Mark

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                            #373
                            I`ve found one big head while today zelt refreshing.
                            The distance is 56 cm and the head has different than regular shape, just like Mark`s one.
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                              #374
                              Another view to compare the difference.
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                                #375
                                Awsome thread! I have a couple too:







                                Val. Mehler A.G./Fulda 1942
                                Last edited by Michał; 10-23-2011, 03:41 PM.

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