Afrika Butterdose!!!

[sean weber]

Private purchase

My questions still stand. Are these for Salt? Are these tropical issue? Are they replacements for the standard butterdose? Are they private purchase?
Sorry, but does anyone have any facts or references or do we only have heresay and opinions? The only 'fact' that I've got so far is the photo of one laying in a DAK Rucksac. I know that most of the dealers who have got these refer to them as salt containers, but for most of the dealers, I would take this with a pinch of salt (excuse the pun) .

Porsche I asked all of those questions two years ago when I started this thread and if the DAK big guns on this forum dont know for sure than it will take a period Blatt to confirm it as Manny just mentioned. I doubt though that these are private purchace items due to the type of markings on them
I seen a large amount of ground dug items last year from Demjansk out of about 30 dishes two where of this type and undated, this still prooves nothing as troops would have been transfered from the med area to USSR
and held on to the dish.

I wouldint dismiss the dish laying on a DAK rucksack as lightly as that I would only dismiss it if there was dozens of pictures of European THO troops pictured with this type of dish . Anyone seen any pictures of this dish in none tropical use??

Sean

[Jos L C]

I would think of salt also..,just because tropical climates means a lot of sweating and loosing salt that way which causes blurred eyesight and feeling dizzy..Adding a little salt to the water or food will help you to feel better regardless the taste..
Just a simple thought though..

Jos.

[afrika]

Yep, salt is the intention for this pattern butterdose. It may not be "tropical" specific but it does crop up in many pics of DAK troops. It would make sense to increase salt intake. The pics all date from the earliest times that troops were in Africa so I would suggest that they were on the list of items produced specifically by the tropical research institute prior to deployment. I have never seen documentation on them, and soldbuchs list them as normal butterdose only, so hearsay and speculation is all we can go on.

If anyone has a spare one I would be very interested in purchasing one, they have eluded me thus far !

Cheers,
Steve

[Porsche]

Does anyone know what the Salt ration was for troops posted to Africa? I've read that the standard ration was 25g (per day?), but this is for non-tropical theatres.
I measured the Salt capacity in my "Africa Dose" and it takes between 200 and 250g.

[fullriede]

Many months ago one of my friends has found hundreds of german WW II gas masks on a battlefield in northern Poland. Most of the gas masks have been found directly in the ground, but a bunch of them them have been found in a big wooden box (box was fast completely rotten). There was not only masks in the box, but also EXACTLY the same "Butterdose". It was full with TALC to protect masks during long storage.... That is all what I can tell you.

The Africa Corps soldier in the picture could simply adapt this "Butterdose" to carry his own things - and not necessarily for food.

[afrika]

Now THAT is well interesting. Were the boxes factory direct or field packed? Any dates? If field packed, then the Heer may have adapted the Afrika butterdose to this role as opposed to the containers being specifically for talc. If the dates were 1939 or thereabouts, then was the OKH planning a desert operation in 1939? Many questions, no answers!


Great info, Fullriede!

Steve

Many months ago one of my friends has found hundreds of german WW II gas masks on a battlefield in northern Poland. Most of the gas masks have been found directly in the ground, but a bunch of them them have been found in a big wooden box (box was fast completely rotten). There was not only masks in the box, but also EXACTLY the same "Butterdose". It was full with TALC to protect masks during long storage.... That is all what I can tell you.

The Africa Corps soldier in the picture could simply adapt this "Butterdose" to carry his own things - and not necessarily for food.

[fullriede]

The box was fast completely rotten, but I am sure the masks were factory packed - about 1 year ago I have seen 2 of such big wooden boxes for sale here in Poland. They were factory made and with big paper labels inside of the lid - with list of all contents. I am not sure, but each box was destinated for 50 or 100 gas masks. When I see such boxes in the future I will look in the list if there is also talc container included.

Marcin

[derspiess63]

Now...Fullriede has given what I'd call a reasonable explaination to those holes' purpose!These "butterdosen" could be containers for anything that could be sprinkled,from salt to sugar,from pepper to louse powder to talcum!
Yes...it could be too big a daily dose of salt if you're not Polyphemus,but it could well be a container which could have held a weekly dose of this or that, or even a container issued every third man,just like the K98k cleaning rods(it takes three to make one long enough to clean the barrel!) and such!
In my opinion is some sort of "pepperbox" that was used to store any kind of powder/grain;as a matter of fact I've seen at least thirtry in the last few years on vendors tables at Italian militaria fairs,and when asked about the meaning of the little screw-on cap the seller would have called them "salt shakers",no tropical,no Wss, no GJ,no nothing that may have made the thing more desireable or that may have skyrocketed its price!
The picture of the little sucker lurking from an Afrikaner's brotbeutel is most fascinating, but before calling this thing "Tropical-issue" I'd think twice!
Manny

[derspiess63]

Now THAT is well interesting. Were the boxes factory direct or field packed? Any dates? If field packed, then the Heer may have adapted the Afrika butterdose to this role as opposed to the containers being specifically for talc. If the dates were 1939 or thereabouts, then was the OKH planning a desert operation in 1939? Many questions, no answers!


Great info, Fullriede!

Steve

Steve,
I've got several WH-issue tropical shirts....one of them, now long sold because the soldier had removed the collar,was dated 1939,and two or three of them are dated 1940...I hope my word is enough and that you don't need any pictures, or else I'd have to unearth them from half a ton of stuff !
As far as I know the Germans were planning an African campaign or operations in a tropical climate well before its actual beginning,and the Hamburg University's Tropical Institute started studying which color to select for the lining of caps used in a hot climate well before 1941,but that by no means would have me calling these boxes "tropical"....but that's only me!
FWIW
Manny

[afrika]

Steve,
I've got several WH-issue tropical shirts....one of them, now long sold because the soldier had removed the collar,was dated 1939,and two or three of them are dated 1940...I hope my word is enough and that you don't need any pictures, or else I'd have to unearth them from half a ton of stuff !
As far as I know the Germans were planning an African campaign or operations in a tropical climate well before its actual beginning,and the Hamburg University's Tropical Institute started studying which color to select for the lining of caps used in a hot climate well before 1941,but that by no means would have me calling these boxes "tropical"....but that's only me!
FWIW
Manny

Manny,
No, Your word is enough! . I actually craftily put that into the last post to see what others thought! 39/40 huh? Now that I would LOVE to see if you ever dig the gear up!

I too believe that Nord Afrika was a pre thought out operation, Mussolini had the place settled pretty well, so why would AH not not show an interest or at least begin to show an early interest in his allies "fortunes". (fleas).
And fwiw, I also do not believe that the mystery 'dose's are purely tropical, I'm just waiting for more proof and I thought we may be on the right track here.

During my Army service we used foot powder containers filled with talcum powder to talc or powder the rubber seals fitted to the Aussie Leopard tanks to prolong the rubbers' life. Very similar use to the gas mask example. it also shows how equipment meant for certain uses is often adapted for other functions. The mystery continues!

cheers Manny,
Steve

[derspiess63]

Manny,
No, Your word is enough! . I actually craftily put that into the last post to see what others thought! 39/40 huh? Now that I would LOVE to see if you ever dig the gear up!

I too believe that Nord Afrika was a pre thought out operation, Mussolini had the place settled pretty well, so why would AH not not show an interest or at least begin to show an early interest in his allies "fortunes". (fleas).
And fwiw, I also do not believe that the mystery 'dose's are purely tropical, I'm just waiting for more proof and I thought we may be on the right track here.

During my Army service we used foot powder containers filled with talcum powder to talc or powder the rubber seals fitted to the Aussie Leopard tanks to prolong the rubbers' life. Very similar use to the gas mask example. it also shows how equipment meant for certain uses is often adapted for other functions. The mystery continues!

cheers Manny,
Steve

G'day Steve,
yes...the mistery continues but the last five lines of your post tell us that we may be close to an epilogue....
Have a great weekend Steve
Manny

[afrika]

Thought I'd resurrect this old beasty...any further info from anyone on these dose?

Steve

[Frozzer]

Many months ago one of my friends has found ...

but that dose was black, and that was ony one example of black dose with "filter" wich I have seen.
there is a lot of orange dose with filter , but maybe someone have seen black dose in this type too?. or maybe color means nothing ?

and one more..
I found a ground dug black dose without filter - and inside was shoe paste. maybe you have any opinion of black doses? that was a dose for shoe paste?

michal

[afrika]

Michal
This is a black/dark brown dose I just bought from Karol. (photo courtesy of Karol98k) I think its just a matter of colour variation...not a certain colour for certain contents.

Steve

[sturmann]

Salut,

I recently bought one of those 100% real/authentic brown bakelite, 42 dated, "dose" in a bazar shop in Prag (not a plastic copy).

It was full with TALC to protect masks during long storage....

Like the ones that FullReide was talking about the last thing that mine contained (from the smell & the tiny residus) was also some sort of talc-powder / feet powder ??

The explaination of FullReide is very interesting and it might indeed have been one of the use of those dose . However if it was designed to protect the rubber of the GazMask what would it be doing in a brottbeutel, as in the Signal picture posted previously ??

IMO it is more logical that it was designed for some feet-powder.
As any old soldier would confirm, feet and weapons are the 2 things that ones looks after the most in the field ...

yves