MP38/40 pouch opinion

[Bergflak]

Hi

I havent seen any german light tan used in Norway.

Regards
Jotuntroll

Forgot to mention!
The light tan pouches found their way to Norway as well. I bought some in "Top Secret" in Oslo back in the mid-80's for $ 35,- a piece! He had a box full of used pouches of mixed colors.

[Fsoq]

Ar

Forgot to mention!
The light tan pouches found their way to Norway as well. I bought some in "Top Secret" in Oslo back in the mid-80's for $ 35,- a piece! He had a box full of used pouches of mixed colors.

OKay, I could belive that Norvegian army made MP pouch after the war using the same material than german army (I mean WW2 german army ). It seems that it is an obvious fact for Bergflak. Why not ? BUT WHO IS ABLE TO SHOW ME ONE OF THESE ON A POST WAR PHOTO for instance, used by a norvegian soldier ?? Or ONE STAMPED with a norvegian marking ??? Or .....I dont know what but any proof would be welcome.
Why did norvegian army make their MP pouches in webbing while so many WW2 german pouches were available (and actually used) in the 50's ???

[fullriede]

You can find here some threads about german 98k ammo pouches made after 1945. We can ask: why? There should be many of pre 1945 98k pouches available in the 50ies, so why someone has produced new ones and they are identical to WW2 examples?

It seems to be just stupid - but post war 98k pouches do exist...

There are also some MP40 pouches made in Bulgary after 1945 - with brass studs. Why? They should have many original german pouches captured during WW2?

[Fsoq]

You can find here some threads about german 98k ammo pouches made after 1945. We can ask: why? There should be many of pre 1945 98k pouches available in the 50ies, so why someone has produced new ones and they are identical to WW2 examples?

It seems to be just stupid - but post war 98k pouches do exist...

There are also some MP40 pouches made in Bulgary after 1945 - with brass studs. Why? They should have many original german pouches captured during WW2?

I agree. Forget my last sentence. Just would like to see any proof that norvegian army really made post war MP pouches using exactly same features (I mean material, D-ring, rivets, leather...) than WW2 german army.
We all know the post war K98 pouches, the post war german winter boots, the splinter patern swiss made zelthbans, the post war Czech MP44 pouches, the norvegian MP leather pouches (or those which are WW2 german re-used, modified or not)..... because you can see them on any tables on any militaria shows. A big amount of them still exists and is usually sold.
But it is not the same with MP pouches, . For instance, in a great belgian show as Ciney, you will find a lot of fake MP pouches and less than 10 genuine one. So actually we may think that 2 are german and 8 are norvegian made ? Maybe......I not saying that it is impossible and I will be happy to learn more about that. But again, any proof will be welcome.

[Bergflak]

I agree. Forget my last sentence. Just would like to see any proof that norvegian army really made post war MP pouches using exactly same features (I mean material, D-ring, rivets, leather...) than WW2 german army.
We all know the post war K98 pouches, the post war german winter boots, the splinter patern swiss made zelthbans, the post war Czech MP44 pouches, the norvegian MP leather pouches (or those which are WW2 german re-used, modified or not)..... because you can see them on any tables on any militaria shows. A big amount of them still exists and is usually sold.
But it is not the same with MP pouches, . For instance, in a great belgian show as Ciney, you will find a lot of fake MP pouches and less than 10 genuine one. So actually we may think that 2 are german and 8 are norvegian made ? Maybe......I not saying that it is impossible and I will be happy to learn more about that. But again, any proof will be welcome.

I know you WANT that type of pouch to be real German WW2, but since our last thread on the subject, they still aren't!
A very similar pouch with replaced (by the Norwegian army) belt loops can be studied here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=255707&page=2

Note the sewing technique and the large disks.

And to quote myself from another thread:
"The main Norwegian replacement pouch was made of green, grey or brown leather, but early examples were canvas copies of the German pouches, made with the same width of belt loops before the new belt was introduced. These are rather rare, but can be seen now and then on the market sold as originals!"

All postwar armies that used German WW2 weapons had to supply the inventory with new made accessories and also gun parts. To think else would be silly. Go on ebay and watch the auctions. The webb slings for MG42/3, the K98 and MP40 leather slings, all the Yugo MG34 and MG53 accessories... all of course represented and sold as originals.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Bergflak]

OKay, I could belive that Norvegian army made MP pouch after the war using the same material than german army (I mean WW2 german army ). It seems that it is an obvious fact for Bergflak. Why not ? BUT WHO IS ABLE TO SHOW ME ONE OF THESE ON A POST WAR PHOTO for instance, used by a norvegian soldier ?? Or ONE STAMPED with a norvegian marking ??? Or .....I dont know what but any proof would be welcome.

A postwar photo would not prove much, apart from the fact that it exists! But we have allready proved that, since there are pictures of it here . It is not German WW2, a fact derived from the "sums" of all things wrong with it! And the only way to see that is from experience and by handling originals. Here is a picture of my current inventory of originals.




You want proof!?
Okay, although not "conclusive evidence" I would say it gives us a good hint.
This pouch is not in my own collection, but has some interesting features: You will recognize the large disks and the strange sewing techniques as allready discussed. Once again also the complete lack of markings. (the one on the right)



And then, the most interesting feature on the back: All thread used is of the strange red color!

Where else can this type of rather uncommon thread be found?!
On Norwegian postwar altered belt loops!



There could of course exist the remote possibillity that different countries also used red thread, but I doubt it. And it doesn't really matter much, as the pouch that started this discussion isn't German WW2......

[Fsoq]

[QUOTE=Bergflak;2409884]I know you WANT that type of pouch to be real German WW2, but since our last thread on the subject, they still aren't!
A very similar pouch with replaced (by the Norwegian army) belt loops can be studied hereQUOTE]

I DONT want that type of pouch to be real german WW2. Just would like to know more about these norvegian pouches. Just would like to have some photos showing some of them in order to recognize them.
Anyways, thanks for the info and pics.

[Bergflak]

For instance, in a great belgian show as Ciney, you will find a lot of fake MP pouches and less than 10 genuine one. So actually we may think that 2 are german and 8 are norvegian made ? Maybe......I not saying that it is impossible and I will be happy to learn more about that. But again, any proof will be welcome.

Just to be as precise as possible: The Norwegian made webb-pouches are really rare (I will find 20 original German WW2 pouches and number 21 might be Norwegian!). But although rare, there is no "collecting will" for these, and they are of course passed on as German WW2 whenever they surface, since they look alike and show use! Although we have pictures of 3 of these now, they are still rare compared to the originals!

[besslein]

Just to be as precise as possible: The Norwegian made webb-pouches are really rare (I will find 20 original German WW2 pouches and number 21 might be Norwegian!). But although rare, there is no "collecting will" for these, and they are of course passed on as German WW2 whenever they surface, since they look alike and show use! Although we have pictures of 3 of these now, they are still rare compared to the originals!

I can offer you two rare norway pouches for one common german one? deal?

[jotuntroll]

Hi
The pouches are ww2, red reinforcment tread is added post was along with the belt loops for u.s. pistol/army belt.

Just my 2cents.

[Bergflak]

I can offer you two rare norway pouches for one common german one? deal?

I think I will stick with my German WW2 stuff.....

[Bergflak]

Hi
The pouches are ww2, red reinforcment tread is added post was along with the belt loops for u.s. pistol/army belt.

Just my 2cents.

The last two pouches are of course German WW2 with replaced belt loops.

The large disk pouch is completely sewn with red thread on the back, so it was manufactured that way! And it would have been a VEEEERY strange coincidence if the German WW2 manufacturer used red thread on some very strange pouches that doesn't match original German WW2 pouches at all, as long as we know that the Norwegian army as a proven fact used red thread to replace the belt loops on German WW2 pouches!

Stranger things have happened at sea, but I am pritty confident that that would have been toooooo much of a coincident!

[Fsoq]

Well, I am more confused than before........

Even if our norwegian friends have not the same point of view........

I think I will continue to collect as I always done: be trusted in my impression and feelings.

Either I will find a good WW2 german pouch or it will be the rarest MP pouch: the "real post war norwegian MP pouch".

In both cases, a bargain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jotuntroll]

The last two pouches are of course German WW2 with replaced belt loops.

The large disk pouch is completely sewn with red thread on the back, so it was manufactured that way! And it would have been a VEEEERY strange coincidence if the German WW2 manufacturer used red thread on some very strange pouches that doesn't match original German WW2 pouches at all, as long as we know that the Norwegian army as a proven fact used red thread to replace the belt loops on German WW2 pouches!

Stranger things have happened at sea, but I am pritty confident that that would have been toooooo much of a coincident!

Hi

That is rather odd.
No remains of german thread than the red one?
The material canvas looks like ww2. Can you provide more pics with also closeups?
cheers!

[Bergflak]

Hi

That is rather odd.
No remains of german thread than the red one?
The material canvas looks like ww2. Can you provide more pics with also closeups?
cheers!

No, as I stated, I no longer have the pouch. I sent it straight back to the seller, as I imediately upon receiving it saw that it was not German WW2.

The canvas is a little rougher than the German, and also stiffer. Nothingh like the German WW2 canvas I have handled.

I hate to discuss this on an open forum, but then again the fakers allready do a much better job than this on the new-made copies. Take a look at the sewing technique and you will spot quite a few non-German features quite easily. If you still need the details I can send you a list of "faults" on a PM.